Fallout 3 FAQ Version 0.4

Mad Max RW · Post by **Mad Max RW** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 1:26 pm

[ -> N/A]

<html><body>I spotted at <A HREF=http://www.nma-fallout.com target=_blank>No Mutants Allowed</A> their <A HREF=http://www.nma-fallout.com/fallout3/faq.shtml target=_blank>Fallout 3/Van Buren unofficial FAQ</A> updated with some of the latest info to come out of Black Isle. Here’s a bit that sheds light on the possibility of player races:<blockquote>Will the player be able to pick multiple races?

No.

Why?

It wouldn't really "screw the story up", but it would certainly have a significant impact on the humanity-centric themes of Fallout games. One could argue that having ghouls and super mutants as protagonists in a story that explores human nature as a theme would be interesting -- it certainly could be, IMO. After all, ghouls and super mutants both started out as humans, so it's not like such themes would be totally inappropriate for them.

But the animations -- that's a lot of animations. Super mutants can't simply work as a morph of a standard human model. Their posture is completely different, and their limbs are so huge that it would cause clipping problems anyway (massively re-work every exported animation). My list of PC animations is about 180. "Monster" animation lists are normally much smaller (20 or less). So... it's not trivial.</blockquote>Check <A HREF=http://www.nma-fallout.com/fallout3/faq.shtml target=_blank>NMA’s Unofficial FAQ</A> for everything we know about Fallout 3 up to this point.</body></html>

swordinstone · Post by **swordinstone** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 2:29 pm

Well, i know most of you dont want playable ghouls and s. mutants... but to me this screams "we're unwilling (or unable) to put in that kind of time and effort"... I hope that doesnt set a theme for the rest of the project.

atoga · Post by **atoga** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 2:35 pm

I certainly hope it's an excuse, not a reason.

Jimmyjay86 · Post by **Jimmyjay86** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 2:45 pm

I thought the whole idea of going to full 3d was to make it easier for not only production but also to limit the amount of models needed. Now Josh keeps on saying they can't do this or that...

swordinstone · Post by **swordinstone** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 2:49 pm

Jimmyjay86 wrote:I thought the whole idea of going to full 3d was to make it easier for not only production but also to limit the amount of models needed. Now Josh keeps on saying they can't do this or that...

kinda sounds like they're short an animator or 2.

Frondz · Post by **Frondz** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 2:55 pm

Wasn't this community just flaming the F3 developers for considering other playable races?

Strap · Post by **Strap** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 3:01 pm

because playable races were only availible in FOT and now in FBOS. and we all hate those games.
(maybe FOT is fun... but it's not as great as FO1-2)

i seriously hope this 3d stuff turns out good...

swordinstone · Post by **swordinstone** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 3:16 pm

Frondz wrote:Wasn't this community just flaming the F3 developers for considering other playable races?

yes, and while im not really certain what side of the line I stand on with that issue, what concerns me is their making of excuses... sounds like they arent willing to put the time in to add a feature that might make the game better. In this case its about playable races, so not everyone will agree on this one specifically... but other features that should be included, might not because of this kind of attitude.... or simply not enough help. Everyone here has been waiting for Fallout 3 for a very long time. To hear this sort of thing makes it sound like the "Interplay Sideshow".

But the animations -- that's a lot of animations. Super mutants can't simply work as a morph of a standard human model. Their posture is completely different, and their limbs are so huge that it would cause clipping problems anyway (massively re-work every exported animation). My list of PC animations is about 180. "Monster" animation lists are normally much smaller (20 or less). So... it's not trivial.

spyder07 · Post by **spyder07** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 3:23 pm

Yeah it just sounds like laziness to me. Hey with all the money they'll make from FOBOS, Interplay can give BI all the animators they want!

Yaced · Post by **Yaced** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 3:27 pm

JE: Hey, let's implement this!
community: fuck you, you OH SHIT I HEAR THE ICE CREAM TRUCK!!!!!111!1111oneone.
JE: Hey, okay guys let's not implement this after all
community: fuck you, you lazy OH SHIT I HEAR THE ICE CREAM TRUCK!!!!!111!1111oneone.

:roll:

Frondz · Post by **Frondz** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 3:55 pm

Yaced wrote:JE: Hey, let's implement this!
community: fuck you, you OH SHIT I HEAR THE ICE CREAM TRUCK!!!!!111!1111oneone.
JE: Hey, okay guys let's not implement this after all
community: fuck you, you lazy OH SHIT I HEAR THE ICE CREAM TRUCK!!!!!111!1111oneone.

:roll:

My point exactly.

In all honesty, this community scares the living bejeezus out of me.

Gimp Mask · Post by **Gimp Mask** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 3:57 pm

Yaced wrote:JE: Hey, let's implement this!
community: fuck you, you OH SHIT I HEAR THE ICE CREAM TRUCK!!!!!111!1111oneone.
JE: Hey, okay guys let's not implement this after all
community: fuck you, you lazy OH SHIT I HEAR THE ICE CREAM TRUCK!!!!!111!1111oneone.

:roll:

Ever thought that the "community" isn't just one huge collective asshole and the opinions may actually *gasp* vary? Some like this, some like that, some don't like either and some just could not care less. That said, your quote could as well go like this:

JE: Hey, let's implement this!
"community": That's super JE! I think it's a great idea!
JE: Hey guys I'm not implement this after all
"community": Cool dude, it would've sucked anyway

It's funny how some of you guys try to label everyone @ DAC (or NMA) evil and annoying cunts in every possible way simply because they're part of this community. If someone states their own personal opinion you can't say it's the community's opinion, because I don't believe there is such thing as "community's opinion". It's like saying that everyone @ the IPLY boards are retarded fags (I'm not denying it either ;), just doesn't make much sense to me.

For the record I'm just happy there are no other playable races no matter whatever the reason behind the decision is.

N · Post by N » Wed Jul 16, 2003 3:57 pm

Here's my take on the issue:

For the amount of work that it would take to implement the other playable races, they didn't believe that it was a 'strong enough' feature to entice the players (especially the hardcore Fallout audience)? Thus, for all the modeling/clipping/animating work that needed to be done as such (and for the little story bits mentioned), it isn't to be included.

Rather, they can spend their time on the animation of the main character, weapons, skins, textures, etc -- on things that they believe will without a doubt be seen as 'good' by the entire audience of players.

In that light, to me, it is not laziness -- more of a balancing/tradeoff between the total amount of time and work it is going to take to make certain elements of the game quality (or include them at all). And again, in this case, it just "wasn't worth it" to add the other playable races in for a variety of reasons.

Oh, and WOOO HOOO!

Dramuck · Post by **Dramuck** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 4:12 pm

It seems they felt that adding different PC races wasn't feasible and I would agree. The game would have to change dramatically when playing a human versus a mutant or ghoul, right? Just consider how many decades all the mutants and ghouls have lived through, theyÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢d have to start at a level higher than one in order to properly represent them. It may be doable, but if it detracts from the substance of the game, then itÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s not worth it.

Mad Max RW · Post by **Mad Max RW** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 4:21 pm

Frondz wrote:
Yaced wrote:JE: Hey, let's implement this!
community: fuck you, you OH SHIT I HEAR THE ICE CREAM TRUCK!!!!!111!1111oneone.
JE: Hey, okay guys let's not implement this after all
community: fuck you, you lazy OH SHIT I HEAR THE ICE CREAM TRUCK!!!!!111!1111oneone.

:roll:
My point exactly.

In all honesty, this community scares the living bejeezus out of me.

Haha, you guys hit the nail on the head. It's all in good fun though.

Nice to see some new people who aren't psychos or complete idiots. Very refreshing.

Yaced · Post by **Yaced** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 4:49 pm

Lasse wrote: Ever thought that the "community" isn't just one huge collective asshole and the opinions may actually *gasp* vary?

Yeah, I realize that and was only being half serious. I consider myself a part of the community, but still often seem disagree with others. Actually, if you look closely, you'll notice that I even disagreed with others in this very thread! OMG indeed. So yes, obviously the whole community doesn't have a single collective brain.

But on the other hand, I believe there's a reason behind the fact that every other BBS that even remotely deals with gaming seems to like placing the phrase "Fallout fans" next to the word "obsessive" in threads that might have originally been about fundies or any other group of generally dislikeable people.

Or maybe it's just the most visible and loudest part of the community that acts like crazies. (without naming anyone in particular...)

...

Briosafreak · Post by **Briosafreak** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 4:52 pm

swordinstone wrote:
Jimmyjay86 wrote:I thought the whole idea of going to full 3d was to make it easier for not only production but also to limit the amount of models needed. Now Josh keeps on saying they can't do this or that...
kinda sounds like they're short an animator or 2.

They only had one animator in IWD and IWD2, they have 3 for FO3, so no, it`s not a matter of lacking resources, but of seeing if the balance between what can be achieved and the work it will take to achieve it is worth it.

In Fallout2 they always said "hey this is cool, let`s put it on the game", as a result we got an unfinished buggy piece of software. I wouldn`t like to see that happen again.

Good post Lassie, i agree in general with what you said, just want to add that not everyone in the BIS boards is retarded, maybe Saint is right and they are a bit Don Quixote in beeing there, i don`t know, but there is inteligent life living on those boards, and different views, like here or on NMA. The habit of making generalizations about the FO community is rooted too deep, multiple playable races actually won the NMA poll, against my personal vote, wich shows the diversity of opinions and the different perspectives all over the community.

That`s why the FAQ is important, to let people read and make their own judjement on Fallout3 features, if the community was just a bunch of naysayers or ass lickers it would not be made, we could just put a pic of Sawyer either as tubgirl or as buddha instead and go on with our lives.

SuperH · Post by **SuperH** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 5:22 pm

Let's see here, you have the difference between making another 180 animations, or only 20... why, exactly, is deciding not to make 160 animations for something that at least half of the fanbase was deadset against, laziness?
Oh, of course, all game developers see putting nine times the work into something that people have a bad reaction to as well spent time. Except J.E. Cause he's lazy.

Briosafreak · Post by **Briosafreak** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 5:35 pm

SuperH wrote:Let's see here, you have the difference between making another 180 animations, or only 20... why, exactly, is deciding not to make 160 animations for something that at least half of the fanbase was deadset against, laziness?
Oh, of course, all game developers see putting nine times the work into something that people have a bad reaction to as well spent time. Except J.E. Cause he's lazy.

That`s the same reasoning that made the FO2 devs to put every easter egg possible, at the end we got several broken quests and a car that showed up everywhere making the game impossible to play.

A tighter more focused development is a plus, if that`s on the expense of gimmicks (in Fallout that would be a gimmick, it isn`t something inherent to the game like in D&D) so be it.
It still can be made on an expansion pack, at least the mutants and ghouls can start at something higher than level 1.

Gimp Mask · Post by **Gimp Mask** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 6:31 pm

Yaced wrote:Yeah, I realize that and was only being half serious. I consider myself a part of the community, but still often seem disagree with others.

Sorry bout that then - I just assumed from your tiny post count and the lack of sarcasm-indicating smileys that you were just some twit who had registered to annoy the fuck out of certain people here... wouldn't be nothing new you know.

But on the other hand, I believe there's a reason behind the fact that every other BBS that even remotely deals with gaming seems to like placing the phrase "Fallout fans" next to the word "obsessive" in threads that might have originally been about fundies or any other group of generally dislikeable people.

I see your point, I'm just a bit of tired of all the shit fan sites like DAC and NMA are taking because of the opinions of a few guys. These are the sites that are dedicated to a game over 5 years old, and there's still lots of fans around. I'd call that pretty impressive, but now that there's "possibly" a sequel in the making, you have to expect some very extreme opinions from people who have dedicated a lot of their time for these games.

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Fallout 3 FAQ Version 0.4

Fallout 3 FAQ Version 0.4

Laziness?