Duck and Cover

Hi guys!

I'd like to hear with you all about what makes an rpg good.

Personally, what I loved about fallout 1-2, BG 1-2, IWD, Fable, Gothic 1-2, etc, is that the quests are fun, you start out weak and end up really powerful, and having an interesting and creative storyline.

A huge problem, in my opinion, with games like Fallout 3, Dragon Age and even NWN 2+, is that most of the quests are boring, and you feel 'mediocre' all throughout the game. They were all a pretty big disappointment to be, judging from their ancestors. In addition, many of the quests almost feel like a job. In the 'good old ones', each quest really makes you love the game more!

I love when just thinking about a game, brings you back to all those fun areas and quests. With BG, Gothic, even Half Life, I have lots of great memories that keeps bringing me back to finish them almost every year, however the newer games don't bring me anything at all.

Does anyone else feel this way? If not, what am I doing wrong in the new games? Is it possible to LOVE BG2 AND NWN2? Or even Fallout 2 and Fallout 3?

My phrasing is a bit vague, please excuse it.
I look forward for your input!

Paper Mario

The origin stories in Dragon Age were interesting, even though I only tried two. But I agree that a lot of the quests are just there for you to do stuff and feel somewhat fulfilling. The characters at least have some depth to them.

Have you tried Planescape Torment? I haven't played it yet, but I heard it has a pretty good storyline.

Paper Mario

Taco-Hero wrote:The origin stories in Dragon Age were interesting, even though I only tried two. But I agree that a lot of the quests are just there for you to do stuff and feel somewhat fulfilling. The characters at least have some depth to them.

Have you tried Planescape Torment? I haven't played it yet, but I heard it has a pretty good storyline.

Yes, but I didn't finish it.
My problem with planscape, is that a huge element of enjoyment is gone-> you barely focus on gear at all.

For example, in baldur's gate, at the bandit's camp, you finish the boss off for the first time and get your first Full Plate armor ever. Win!

There's no feeling such as that in Torment. Even though it has awesome story, the gameplay is a bit dull imo.

I will replay it one day for sure though.


Regarding DA, it was just a huuuuuuuge letdown for me. DA - Awakenings felt a bit better, but still a letdown.

Personally, everything that came outta bioware after KOTOR1 hasn't been living up to expectations by far.

Paper Mario

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ImZTwYwCug

gtfo from this thread if you're just gonna troll it, please.

Ahahaha. Oh, innocence. Oh, naiveté.

RPGs need at minimum a decent plot with standard-or-above writing. That's the foundation-- depending on the genre and gameplay style/mechanics, everything else can change from there.

I've heard Paper Mario is pretty awesome

Stainless wrote:I've heard Paper Mario is pretty awesome

You too.

The vast majority of quests in "modern" rpgs are just fetch quests with no real value. The player has no stake in anything. Fallout 3 was just a giant collection of fetch and messenger quests. The basic formula goes something like this: You happen upon some random person in your travels who suddenly trusts you completely - enough to tell you their whole life story and where their priceless possession is. Only problem is that the possession is guarded by ferocious enemies. If you can get this possession for the person, the person will reward you with some crap that you don't really need which is much less valuable than the possession you just retrieved. Oh, and you might get a Xbox Award or something for it.

Does it have any impact on the story? No
Does it expand the game world? No
Does it reveal a new location? Maybe
Is that location of any use to the rest of the game? Probably not.
Do you get some kewl loot out of it? Probably.

That's the problem with most of today's RPGs - the majority of quests have no impact on the story.

But, then again, a lot of modern RPGs have crappy stories. Fallout 3 case in point.

Jagged Alliance 2 is RPG-Esque. It has afew sidequests and shit. Think of it as an RPG with more focus on shooting someone in the face. That's true creative puzzle solving right there.

St. Toxic, 04052006 wrote:The choice of skills, the impact of chosen skills, the choice of action, the impact of chosen action.

Emphasis on this makes it an rpg to begin with. A consistent and interesting storyline on top of that, in all likelyhood makes it a good rpg.

Kjutte wrote:My problem with planscape, is that a huge element of enjoyment is gone-> you barely focus on gear at all.

For example, in baldur's gate, at the bandit's camp, you finish the boss off for the first time and get your first Full Plate armor ever. Win!

maybe try diablol, or nethack

Kjutte wrote:gtfo from this thread if you're just gonna troll it, please.

Paper Mario

An important element for me which hasn't really been brought up before is the availability of metagames, or so to say, games inside the game. The best example of this is the technology tree in Arcanum. Getting schematics was just fucking awesome, quite frankly I never liked the game itself so much but I replayed it many times just for how the technology worked. That also led to another factor, items actually mattered. You didn't pick up garbage, only to sell it for 2 bottle caps later on, because you could use a lot of that stuff to make useful stuff, like bullets. Really made it worth checking the contents of every single container.
Another example of a metagame was lockpicking in the Thief series, as opposed to just clicking the use botton a la Oblivion.

King of Creation wrote:The vast majority of quests in "modern" rpgs are just fetch quests with no real value. The player has no stake in anything. Fallout 3 was just a giant collection of fetch and messenger quests. The basic formula goes something like this: You happen upon some random person in your travels who suddenly trusts you completely - enough to tell you their whole life story and where their priceless possession is. Only problem is that the possession is guarded by ferocious enemies. If you can get this possession for the person, the person will reward you with some crap that you don't really need which is much less valuable than the possession you just retrieved. Oh, and you might get a Xbox Award or something for it.

Does it have any impact on the story? No
Does it expand the game world? No
Does it reveal a new location? Maybe
Is that location of any use to the rest of the game? Probably not.
Do you get some kewl loot out of it? Probably.

That's the problem with most of today's RPGs - the majority of quests have no impact on the story.

But, then again, a lot of modern RPGs have crappy stories. Fallout 3 case in point.

Very true, couldn't agree more!
I think they are focusing more on voiceacting and 'moving mouths' rather than storyline etc.

Honestly, I couldn't care less if the NPC talks, or if his mouth is in sync...
FO2 looks like shit, it's still the best, most capturing game I ever played.
And you most definitely feel like a superhero at the end of it

Paper Mario