Well, just got in Megaton. It's not that bad, but it's still very much like Oblivion in a lot of ways, mostly the dialogues, lifeless NPCs, and a boring main quest.
I spoke with most NPCs in Megaton and I avoided the stupid "have you seen my father" line until I realized I couldn't really move on without it.
And there are tons of little details that annoy me.
For example, I can fix or detonate the bomb, and I was offered 100 caps for both solutions. Then I talk to this whore, and it's 120 caps for a night. Not very logical to me.
Fallout 3: Your thoughts
Well, frankly, back on the NPCs, they're just not interesting and I don't wanna know more about pretty much any of them. For some reason, in Fallout 1 and 2 I tried to click the dialogue options that'd make me learn more about the NPC or the town or whatever; in Fallout 3 the dialogues are so unreal that I just want to skip them 
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Jimmyjay86
- Hero of the Glowing Lands
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My first impression was that the install takes a fuck of a long time. VATS is a waste. I thought I could pre-target with it but it doesn't work quite like I thought it should. Gameplay is annoying. Having got used to gameplay in GTA San Andreas, this sucks. This reminds me of HL1 but having never even considered playing Oblivion, I can't compare.
I just got into Megaton and I'm willing to give it a chance but this isn't Fallout beyond the in-game references and perks and shit. I had some hopes with the intro that it would keep a unique fifties feel but the developers obviously kept a strict no-frills PA game with little keeping of the Fallout style. I distinctly remember my first impressions of playing Fallout and feel none of the same awe-struck wonderment with this game.
I just got into Megaton and I'm willing to give it a chance but this isn't Fallout beyond the in-game references and perks and shit. I had some hopes with the intro that it would keep a unique fifties feel but the developers obviously kept a strict no-frills PA game with little keeping of the Fallout style. I distinctly remember my first impressions of playing Fallout and feel none of the same awe-struck wonderment with this game.
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SenisterDenister
- Haha you're still not there yet
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King of Creation
- Righteous Subjugator
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I think it would be near unplayable for me if it wasn't for VATS. I fucking hate ducking behind boulders and such all the time. Every fight is VATS for me - all AP on shooting in the head (okay 90 percent of the time, radscorpions are a bit different)Jimmyjay86 wrote: VATS is a waste.
I took Sniper perk as soon as I could.
Biggest thing I've run into is armor really doesn't do anything for me. The power armor isn't offering much more protection than the armored vault 101 armor you get from Moira in Megaton...?
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Dogmeatlives
- Living Legend
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- Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:35 am
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Have you been repairing the armor? Repairs cost alot of fucking money. Is it possible to repair shit yourself in the game?cazsim83 wrote:I think it would be near unplayable for me if it wasn't for VATS. I fucking hate ducking behind boulders and such all the time. Every fight is VATS for me - all AP on shooting in the head (okay 90 percent of the time, radscorpions are a bit different)Jimmyjay86 wrote: VATS is a waste.
I took Sniper perk as soon as I could.
Biggest thing I've run into is armor really doesn't do anything for me. The power armor isn't offering much more protection than the armored vault 101 armor you get from Moira in Megaton...?
Wasteland Radio, with Charlie C.
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SenisterDenister
- Haha you're still not there yet
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Yeah but you need to have more than one of the same item in your inventory to repair it, ie, to repair your 10 mm you need another one that you've picked up to combine it with.
Once you get your repair skill high enough it'll be cheaper to buy cheap and worn down weapons to use to repair your weapons instead of paying the NPC's to repair them outright.
Sadly, I didn't figure out how to do it until my repair skill was past 70.
Once you get your repair skill high enough it'll be cheaper to buy cheap and worn down weapons to use to repair your weapons instead of paying the NPC's to repair them outright.
Sadly, I didn't figure out how to do it until my repair skill was past 70.
Repairing can be a bitch. the T51-b power armor is an assfuck to repair. I think you can use regular power helmets to repair the helmet, but nothing repairs the suit itself except npcs...still worth it. I wuv my t51-b.
Life is like cheap whiskey, it's mostly bad, and leaves a shitty taste in your mouth, but it's better then nothing.
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Dreadnought
- Devil times three go climb a tree
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Kashluk
My friend, who's never played Oblivion, got the game and had the chance to play it for an hour before he came to visit me said:
"Yeah, the beginning was all cool and shit, and the effects when you first see daylight were impressive. But fuck, man, the first person you come by, you don't, like, go and ask: 'How come there are survivors?! Didn't mankind perish? What's going on? Isn't radiation a threat anymore?' and shit, no no, you get a FED-EX QUEST right away, it's like a god damn slap in the face that says 'fuck you, this is an rpg for console kiddies, not a post-apocalyptic simulation'".
the victory
"Yeah, the beginning was all cool and shit, and the effects when you first see daylight were impressive. But fuck, man, the first person you come by, you don't, like, go and ask: 'How come there are survivors?! Didn't mankind perish? What's going on? Isn't radiation a threat anymore?' and shit, no no, you get a FED-EX QUEST right away, it's like a god damn slap in the face that says 'fuck you, this is an rpg for console kiddies, not a post-apocalyptic simulation'".
Indeed Let'sPiP wrote:Jimmyjay
the victory 
My feelings are similar to Nofu's. I will point out that the tutorial and character creation system was far too "cute", and will not stand repeated runs through. I much preferred the tabula rasas that I created in the original Fallout games, where they only ventured out of the Vault because they drew the short straw. The game even has the audacity to treat this part of the game seriously, as if it has merit.
Also, a 19-year-old protagonist? I thought that sort of thing only happened in JRPGs. Yes, I'm nineteen now, almost twenty, but you can be sure that I don't get called "kid" in reality, even though I look closer to seventeen than twenty. I roleplay cynical thirty- to forty-year-old characters, the sorts of people you'd expect to have the knowledge and responsibility to dictate the future paths of the wastes.
The combat and general gameplay mechanics work acceptably. In fact, combat is quite fun - I much prefer V.A.T.S. to the FPS alternative, even though I am primarily an FPS gamer. The simplification of the levelling, perks and skills system may be contentious - this version doesn't feel anything like a tabletop RPG, unlike the first two - but it's probably necessary for the new interface, and does have some advantages, like a lack of tiered skills.
Some skills were indispensable if you wanted a decent game in the first two - Small Guns and Speech come to mind - while others were pointless to tag, including Repair, Science, Throwing, Outdoorsman and Traps. I'm sure if you were to play Jason Mical's Fallout PnP, that you may well make use of these seemingly useless skills, but in the computer games, it was possible to cripple your character by having them. Same applies to a lot of Perks, and the lack of focus on radiation in the original games was laughable. How many Rad-Xs did you take during those games? For me, it was two in the first and none in the second. Radiation simply wasn't that much of an issue, while it very much is in Fallout 3.
Anyway, wasn't the SPECIAL system heading towards simplification with Van Buren anyway? Or was that my imagination playing tricks on me?
Dialogue, on the other hand, is horrible. I loved it in Fallout where you felt like you were on a razor's edge every time you entered conversation. If you wanted, you could provoke enemies into combat just by being a jackass, or even convince them to let you go after a bit of aggression. It helped that general neutrality and mercenary spirit that I felt when I played the games. Now, you feel as if you have to shoot people in the face before they'll react, and you can forget about a diplomatic approach through the game as well.
The feel of the game is quite a contentious issue. They've definitely captured the post-apocalyptic setting, but even though the elements that they've harvested from the original don't necessarily betray canon, even those contentious issues like the changing of the Brotherhood of Steel from a disinterested party in political affairs to a bunch of gung-ho action heroes, it takes a hell of a lot of suspension of disbelief in order not to judge it on bad representations of the base material, and to be honest, there's only so much effort you can make before it gets painful.
(Don't look at me like that when I say that about the Brotherhood of Steel. It clearly doesn't make much sense, but a change in leadership on the way to Washington D.C. might have edged the BoS towards a more open relationship with the wastelanders. It's not a good explanation, I'll admit right off the bat, but, to be fair, it isn't as much a betrayal of the series canon as Fallout Tactics.)
As well as that, the game completely lacks the black humour and biting satire of the original games. The original Fallout games, particularly Fallout 2, never took themselves seriously. There was a pop-culture reference right outside Vault 13, and the irreverence didn't stop there. The dialogue system worked right into that, with its abilities to allow you to roleplay non-sociopathic jackasses, anti-heroes and just jokers in general. As well as that, the game could say more in a single description box than some of the images could in Fallout 3. Everybody remember the description box when you first exited the Vault 13 cave? For me, that's one of my abiding memories of the first game. And remember some of the criticals that you got? The description of a groin shot said more in twenty words than any gore-strewn slow-motion death in Fallout 3 ever could.
And yet, seeing it from a perspective away from the original Fallout games, and closer to a Fallout Tactics aesthetic, with BioShock-like combat, there's little to complain about. It's not as good as the turn-based Fallout games, but it's better and more RPG-like than Tactics, easily better than that console one and, to be fair to Bethesda, probably better than Van Buren would have been.
The game is buggy, yes, although that considered, running it on XP, I haven't had as many troubles as I have had in other games, particularly the likes of Operation Flashpoint and ArmA: Armed Assault.
In conclusion, it ain't the Fallout we love and remember, but it is a perfectly acceptable and playable game. Buggy, yes, although that considered, running it on XP, I haven't had as many troubles as I have had in other games, particularly the likes of Operation Flashpoint and ArmA: Armed Assault.
Also, a 19-year-old protagonist? I thought that sort of thing only happened in JRPGs. Yes, I'm nineteen now, almost twenty, but you can be sure that I don't get called "kid" in reality, even though I look closer to seventeen than twenty. I roleplay cynical thirty- to forty-year-old characters, the sorts of people you'd expect to have the knowledge and responsibility to dictate the future paths of the wastes.
The combat and general gameplay mechanics work acceptably. In fact, combat is quite fun - I much prefer V.A.T.S. to the FPS alternative, even though I am primarily an FPS gamer. The simplification of the levelling, perks and skills system may be contentious - this version doesn't feel anything like a tabletop RPG, unlike the first two - but it's probably necessary for the new interface, and does have some advantages, like a lack of tiered skills.
Some skills were indispensable if you wanted a decent game in the first two - Small Guns and Speech come to mind - while others were pointless to tag, including Repair, Science, Throwing, Outdoorsman and Traps. I'm sure if you were to play Jason Mical's Fallout PnP, that you may well make use of these seemingly useless skills, but in the computer games, it was possible to cripple your character by having them. Same applies to a lot of Perks, and the lack of focus on radiation in the original games was laughable. How many Rad-Xs did you take during those games? For me, it was two in the first and none in the second. Radiation simply wasn't that much of an issue, while it very much is in Fallout 3.
Anyway, wasn't the SPECIAL system heading towards simplification with Van Buren anyway? Or was that my imagination playing tricks on me?
Dialogue, on the other hand, is horrible. I loved it in Fallout where you felt like you were on a razor's edge every time you entered conversation. If you wanted, you could provoke enemies into combat just by being a jackass, or even convince them to let you go after a bit of aggression. It helped that general neutrality and mercenary spirit that I felt when I played the games. Now, you feel as if you have to shoot people in the face before they'll react, and you can forget about a diplomatic approach through the game as well.
The feel of the game is quite a contentious issue. They've definitely captured the post-apocalyptic setting, but even though the elements that they've harvested from the original don't necessarily betray canon, even those contentious issues like the changing of the Brotherhood of Steel from a disinterested party in political affairs to a bunch of gung-ho action heroes, it takes a hell of a lot of suspension of disbelief in order not to judge it on bad representations of the base material, and to be honest, there's only so much effort you can make before it gets painful.
(Don't look at me like that when I say that about the Brotherhood of Steel. It clearly doesn't make much sense, but a change in leadership on the way to Washington D.C. might have edged the BoS towards a more open relationship with the wastelanders. It's not a good explanation, I'll admit right off the bat, but, to be fair, it isn't as much a betrayal of the series canon as Fallout Tactics.)
As well as that, the game completely lacks the black humour and biting satire of the original games. The original Fallout games, particularly Fallout 2, never took themselves seriously. There was a pop-culture reference right outside Vault 13, and the irreverence didn't stop there. The dialogue system worked right into that, with its abilities to allow you to roleplay non-sociopathic jackasses, anti-heroes and just jokers in general. As well as that, the game could say more in a single description box than some of the images could in Fallout 3. Everybody remember the description box when you first exited the Vault 13 cave? For me, that's one of my abiding memories of the first game. And remember some of the criticals that you got? The description of a groin shot said more in twenty words than any gore-strewn slow-motion death in Fallout 3 ever could.
And yet, seeing it from a perspective away from the original Fallout games, and closer to a Fallout Tactics aesthetic, with BioShock-like combat, there's little to complain about. It's not as good as the turn-based Fallout games, but it's better and more RPG-like than Tactics, easily better than that console one and, to be fair to Bethesda, probably better than Van Buren would have been.
The game is buggy, yes, although that considered, running it on XP, I haven't had as many troubles as I have had in other games, particularly the likes of Operation Flashpoint and ArmA: Armed Assault.
In conclusion, it ain't the Fallout we love and remember, but it is a perfectly acceptable and playable game. Buggy, yes, although that considered, running it on XP, I haven't had as many troubles as I have had in other games, particularly the likes of Operation Flashpoint and ArmA: Armed Assault.
"When conversing about oligarchy, you must consider this point: Many children are taught from an early age that monarchies are primarily benevolent, and are given very little to discourage this opinion until at least adolesence. Even more prevalent are stories about the supposed benevolence of heirs to the throne, symbolising a cycle which they are taught is good."
Just some final crap from me before I bugger off.
Well, I'd just like to add that Fort Constantine and the Nuka Cola plant were also two decent locations for me. I think the main reason Fort Constantine held my interest was due to the whole business about the keys and ulterior motives of the quest giver, nice set ups for the location. I also enjoyed the Nuka Cola plant, always knew that stuff wasn't good for you.
Unfortunately great dialogue is pretty much still not there. One of the escaped slaves mentioned that he accidentally killed his master's little girl and had to escape. Might've been a good opportunity some type of comment saying that kids are pretty much invincible. I loved some of those moments in the oriignals, in Fo2 I lmao'ed at Mason (I think) talking conspiratorially to me about how he figured there was messed up cloning accident and that's why so many people look identical, the cafe of broken dreams stuff was also good.
I actually like what they've done with the repair skill, if you don't mind the obvious irritation from making weapnos and armour deteriorate I think it was a good addition, added nicely to the wasteland scavenger angle, so yeah, actually this is one thing I can't fault them on.
Ultimately, Fo3 I think is a good game, but my problem is still that none of the elements which, for me, elevated Fo 1 + 2 above the other RPGs are present here. The locations have lost a lot of depth in the way of characters, plots & subplots, dialogue trees etc, the result for me is that even though the gameworld is a lot bigger you feel like the water you're swimming in is a lot thinner, a lot less alive. Also, Fo combat and character systems have been, uh, changed, in some cases I think quite radically. All of these things are what set Fo above and beyond, not to mention being a nice break from the sword and sorcery RPG setting. I knew that these were pretty much the very things endangered when Bethesda took it on, and I think those fears were well-founded, the whole uproar about the child-invincibility was pretty much largely about Fo fans seeing unfettered player freedom being eroded, also a staple characteristic that made FO great. Personally I'm enjoying it now as a sort of sui-generis of the series, and not comparing it to Fo 1 + 2. For better or worse it's a different game now, I'm just hoping the existing canon is pretty much respected, and there aren't any total howlers waiting for me.
Well, I'd just like to add that Fort Constantine and the Nuka Cola plant were also two decent locations for me. I think the main reason Fort Constantine held my interest was due to the whole business about the keys and ulterior motives of the quest giver, nice set ups for the location. I also enjoyed the Nuka Cola plant, always knew that stuff wasn't good for you.
Unfortunately great dialogue is pretty much still not there. One of the escaped slaves mentioned that he accidentally killed his master's little girl and had to escape. Might've been a good opportunity some type of comment saying that kids are pretty much invincible. I loved some of those moments in the oriignals, in Fo2 I lmao'ed at Mason (I think) talking conspiratorially to me about how he figured there was messed up cloning accident and that's why so many people look identical, the cafe of broken dreams stuff was also good.
I actually like what they've done with the repair skill, if you don't mind the obvious irritation from making weapnos and armour deteriorate I think it was a good addition, added nicely to the wasteland scavenger angle, so yeah, actually this is one thing I can't fault them on.
Ultimately, Fo3 I think is a good game, but my problem is still that none of the elements which, for me, elevated Fo 1 + 2 above the other RPGs are present here. The locations have lost a lot of depth in the way of characters, plots & subplots, dialogue trees etc, the result for me is that even though the gameworld is a lot bigger you feel like the water you're swimming in is a lot thinner, a lot less alive. Also, Fo combat and character systems have been, uh, changed, in some cases I think quite radically. All of these things are what set Fo above and beyond, not to mention being a nice break from the sword and sorcery RPG setting. I knew that these were pretty much the very things endangered when Bethesda took it on, and I think those fears were well-founded, the whole uproar about the child-invincibility was pretty much largely about Fo fans seeing unfettered player freedom being eroded, also a staple characteristic that made FO great. Personally I'm enjoying it now as a sort of sui-generis of the series, and not comparing it to Fo 1 + 2. For better or worse it's a different game now, I'm just hoping the existing canon is pretty much respected, and there aren't any total howlers waiting for me.
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Jimmyjay86
- Hero of the Glowing Lands
- Posts: 2102
- Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2002 4:02 am
- Location: Wisconsin
- Contact:
Try playing a melee character with VATS. It will drive you batty insane.cazsim83 wrote:I think it would be near unplayable for me if it wasn't for VATS. I fucking hate ducking behind boulders and such all the time. Every fight is VATS for me - all AP on shooting in the head (okay 90 percent of the time, radscorpions are a bit different)Jimmyjay86 wrote: VATS is a waste.
Just wait until I become an admin again...PIP wrote:Jimmyjay
Spoilers be ahead! Avast!
Anyway. A couple more things. Harold returns, at first his...new...voice threw me, but once I started listening, I could hear his gruff tones in it, and considering his...condition...A voice change would be th least of his problems. I think they handled what I consider Harolds mandatory appearence rather well within cannon context. I always knew his head tree was up to no good.
Dogmeat.I love him. Nasty little bastard.
Fort Constantine IS one of the better dungeons...I hate to call them that but that's what they are -_- Especially since you can launch ICBMS at china from it...I wish you could find out what happens after you launch em though.
I've been diggin in terminals and actually found quite a bit of cannon stuff. The second family in Greyditch, who are absent, was from the West coast, the father being a former Enclave soldier from Navarro who ran when thing when tits up, and he's scared shitless over finding the Enclave in the east.
There is SOME mention of a sattelite brotherhood in Chicago area...this would be Tactics...I'm not sure how I feel about that being cannon, even vaguely.
The Vault-Tec HQ is kinda neat, not as neat as it shoulda been. Seriously, I want a giant goddamn database of all the twisted shit they help set up
The Brotherhood...At first, I was kinda slackjawed at the knightly shit, until I realised that Elder Lyons molded this offshoot to his own...uhm, tastes. As far as calssic BoS I like the Outcasts, who are DEFINATELY more in line with what the Brotherhood is.
Oh, and the deathclaws don't talk. I'm looking at you fallout 2 and Tactics. Deathclaws don't talk, they hit you like a mack truck and take copious amounts of ammo to kill, but they don't goddamnt alk, and at least Beth got it right.
Anyway. A couple more things. Harold returns, at first his...new...voice threw me, but once I started listening, I could hear his gruff tones in it, and considering his...condition...A voice change would be th least of his problems. I think they handled what I consider Harolds mandatory appearence rather well within cannon context. I always knew his head tree was up to no good.
Dogmeat.I love him. Nasty little bastard.
Fort Constantine IS one of the better dungeons...I hate to call them that but that's what they are -_- Especially since you can launch ICBMS at china from it...I wish you could find out what happens after you launch em though.
I've been diggin in terminals and actually found quite a bit of cannon stuff. The second family in Greyditch, who are absent, was from the West coast, the father being a former Enclave soldier from Navarro who ran when thing when tits up, and he's scared shitless over finding the Enclave in the east.
There is SOME mention of a sattelite brotherhood in Chicago area...this would be Tactics...I'm not sure how I feel about that being cannon, even vaguely.
The Vault-Tec HQ is kinda neat, not as neat as it shoulda been. Seriously, I want a giant goddamn database of all the twisted shit they help set up
The Brotherhood...At first, I was kinda slackjawed at the knightly shit, until I realised that Elder Lyons molded this offshoot to his own...uhm, tastes. As far as calssic BoS I like the Outcasts, who are DEFINATELY more in line with what the Brotherhood is.
Oh, and the deathclaws don't talk. I'm looking at you fallout 2 and Tactics. Deathclaws don't talk, they hit you like a mack truck and take copious amounts of ammo to kill, but they don't goddamnt alk, and at least Beth got it right.
Life is like cheap whiskey, it's mostly bad, and leaves a shitty taste in your mouth, but it's better then nothing.
LOOK OUT BELOW, SPOILERS FOLLOW
I guess you aren't going to be greeted with the world-altering revelations you got from Dick Richardson, and probably no character twist will ever match meeting the master for the first time, but, dare I say it, I actually think Bethesda have made respectable additions to the canon. I think I might need a shower after saying that actually.
However, gameplay-wise, the originals are NOT there. Everything from combat to interface to the approaches Beth took to dialogue is very, very different. But, like I said, I'm regarding this as a different game now, more an action-oriented RPG than the type of depth RPGs we seen in FO 1 & 2.
Anyway, I really am buggering off now, nice to see the Fo fanbase is still alive and well, I think Fo3 has obvious drawbacks, especially when compared to the originals, but it's definitely no PoS2, which in itself is a heavenly rain of mercy.
Oh dear, I thought I'd never say this, but I like a lot of what they've done with the canon. Making the creator of the GECK a loopy genius with one of the vaults apparently devoted to his own crazy project was a nice stroke: the GECK was a nod to the existing games and introducing Braun expanded on it. Even the president being an advanced ZAX computer was decent enough, the fact that this type of thing had already been done in San Francisco maybe derogates from it, but it also makes it more canonically plausible kind of thing. I actually liked the super-robot, however, "Steel be with you" is an abomination.Nofu wrote: I'm just hoping the existing canon is pretty much respected, and there aren't any total howlers waiting for me.
I noticed that too, some of the terminals are actually worth reading.Doc Hill wrote:I've been diggin in terminals and actually found quite a bit of cannon stuff.
I guess you aren't going to be greeted with the world-altering revelations you got from Dick Richardson, and probably no character twist will ever match meeting the master for the first time, but, dare I say it, I actually think Bethesda have made respectable additions to the canon. I think I might need a shower after saying that actually.
However, gameplay-wise, the originals are NOT there. Everything from combat to interface to the approaches Beth took to dialogue is very, very different. But, like I said, I'm regarding this as a different game now, more an action-oriented RPG than the type of depth RPGs we seen in FO 1 & 2.
Anyway, I really am buggering off now, nice to see the Fo fanbase is still alive and well, I think Fo3 has obvious drawbacks, especially when compared to the originals, but it's definitely no PoS2, which in itself is a heavenly rain of mercy.
