Fallout 3 rumourmill - the inevitable, or more non-news

[atoga]

Baldur's Gate wasn't an RPG. Then again, neither was Oblivion, so...

I think you can work out a decent RPG with minimal dialogue (if not none at all). What's critical is multiple solutions (which is why SS2 might be called a 'real' RPG).

[Kahgan]

System Shock 2 rocked...and it scared the shite out of me, and I never even played it through.

[St. Toxic]

I just don't get it! When I start the game you configurate your graphics and blablablaa... I tried every resolutions it tells me that it's not compatible with your graphic requirments!!!

The thing is I have a friggin Ati Radeon Xt1800 pro! I play Oblivion fluently....

How can i get it to work????

[atoga]

I just don't get it! When I start the game you configurate your graphics and blablablaa... I tried every resolutions it tells me that it's not compatible with your graphic requirments!!!

The thing is I have a friggin Ati Radeon Xt1800 pro! I play Oblivion fluently....

How can i get it to work????

This isn't da post dump. Shame on you.

[Dagon]

Fuck the topic of Oblivion, it has nothing to do with Fallout 3 (at least i hope so)
The real problem is complete lack of informations about fallout 3, we have these rumors, which really make me angry, but we really don't know if theyre true, Still i don't think we will get Fps, because it would be a total misunderstanding. I will expect probably the location based TPP game with worldmap etc. It sux, I know, but still they said that there are many new folks working on this project, probably the ones who know pretty well how to write good dialogs , story etc. So it won't be great game but still it can be a good one, they can bring us also some nice suprise 'bout the team

[box]

TALKING HEADS AND SHIT

I used to think that the much-vaunted Oblivion talking head technology would be good for fallout, until I realized that yeah all talking heads do is discourage dialog. So long as everyone is a talking head, who the fuck is going to sit there and coordinate all kinds of dialogue for everybody.

Let's go with somebody 'easy,' like Renesco from 2. Consider Renesco in 'his' entirety. He has numerous plot tie-ins, at least one of which if not, err, tactfully handled, will land him a new home in Golgotha. But more importantly, think about all the shit that you can say and do with Renesco. Shitloads of dialogue, many plot/quest contrivances, and again, shitloads of DIALOGUE. Now, imagine Renesco, in his 100% entirety, translated into Oblivion. IMPOSSIBLE. Wouldn't happen. And to be honest, I think the engine could maybe manage it. But can is not the issue: Beth can't have it both ways. You can't have deep dialogue and universal voice acting. No way.

The closest you could get is a few 'deeper' characters and everyone else a clone, a schnook. Kind f like Oblvivion. And by 'deeper' I mean brawny paper towels as opposed to the leading name brand competitor.

'Big' people (Nords, Orcs, etc.) in Oblivion all have the same voices, as do certain other groups. Everyone even says the same fucking thing. Oh yeah, that'll work real fucking good for creating a unique world. Holy shit is this game gonna fucking suck...

POLITICAL CORRECTEDNESS

Also, there's that whole PC issue. Lynette in FO2 was black to make a point. A black drug peddler named Jagged Jimmy J, with a huge scar and a pacifier, would never find his way into FO3. Neither one of these ignoble minority characters would ever find their way into a Beth FO, let alone child killing. And I know it was claimed that child death is being debated over there. BULLSHIT. It has already been decided, but avoiding what someone else on DAC so eloquently called the "fan shitstorm" is priority no.1 for beth right now, at least until they can get their true fanbase, the only fansbase they care about, the KIDDIES, pumped about this M-rated game [that their parents'll buy for them anyways]. Tailored to children, with lots of thongs and pointless f-words and s-words and c-words, but no goddamned complexity. Think San Andreas or a rap cd.

Look at ES-IV especially: pc abounds. So, in FO3, look for exactly 15% blacks in the brotherhood of steel, look for plenty of blonde-haired nordic petty criminals and drug addicts, and of course, we won't ever see a woman as the 'bad guy.'

Fuck, the game can't even have MADE UP FURRY PEOPLE as scum. You know, those designated as the 'trash' in the first place most likely because it avoids a racism charge, yeah even the lizard men and the furries have to be redeemed. Fucking pc garbage. It gets kind of stupid when there's an in-game ban on black guys as bad guys, or when the race ratios are actually thought out. Fuck, I went to college for that shit, I don't need to fucking play it in my video games as well.

So far as FO is concerned, I've become a depressed emo goth swell guy: all my optimism is gone. My will to see another FO game is down the drain, with the blood from my wrists and my daily food intake. I've gone from 99% skeptical to 101% skeptical. Holy shit is this game gonna fucking suck...

Now pardon me while I sing gay ass nerd ballads about how Pete Hines doesn't love me and it makes me cry and how we should talk about our feelings and watch me I'm all emotional and totally giving a shit.

I could call my band Early December, or maybe Mid-November. My brother made up Taking Back Stalingrad, an Emo-Nazi Odyssey of OH SHIT I HEAR THE ICE CREAM TRUCK!!!!!111!1111oneone. Thoughts?

[atoga]

don't write off san andreas.

[Frater Perdurabo]

I think the engine could maybe manage it. But can is not the issue: Beth can't have it both ways. You can't have deep dialogue and universal voice acting. No way.

Also, don't forget the necessary German, French, etc translations that are probably already in production.

I like (but dont love) oblivion, but i am SO damn happy its been successful.
If it wasnt for the success of oblivion you can bet your ass fallout 3 would be something like system shock, at BEST - an FPS with a hint of RPG elements where the story and plot run on rails.

But what if the success of Oblivion made Bethesda realize that they can make shit games and still sell them out.

[Wolfman Walt]

don't write off san andreas.

Did it have child killing?

[St. Toxic]

Taking Back Stalingrad

Best band name I've heard in a good while. Maybe, like, you and me, buddy, could start an interweb band, eh?

This isn't da post dump. Shame on you.

It isn't? Well, it sure is riddled with dumb shit -- hard to tell the difference.

TALKING HEADS AND SHIT

Yeah, it's a tough one. You need to make an individual with his own personality and his on twist of words, and then with the voice acting we're forced implenting workable lip-sync, emotions not to mention dude professionally larping in front of a microphone -- not too much work for one guy, but a whole cast of memorable characters? No dice. Will they flush voice acting? IT'S THE WAY OF THE FUTURE AND SHIT LOWL, so no. How about "Teh FIGHTAS GUILD is lookin fo' NEWBLWOOD!" cut and paste? Jackpot.

POLITICAL CORRECTEDNESS

Pc enforcers, if you're reading -- I'm coming for you.

[urgrue]

Did you even play Baldur's Gate or Torment? Do you know the reason they will always, for ever and ever, bar nothing, no exceptions and in every way, be better than Oblivion, which you hail as the return of good RPGs? Do you know what it is? Do you know why Oblivion will always and forever be the retarded step-child and laughing stock of RPG afficianados?

Dialogue.

I like how you assume you can speak for the entire RPG community.

Lets play "which genre?" - Whats a game where theres a linear plot that you are forced to follow, set in a limited world that leads from one restricted area to the next (linearly), with predetermined, scripted events, and is heavily dialogue/plot-based? Answer: Adventure games.
BG and P:T have more in common with the old games of Sierra and Lucasarts than with Wasteland or the Ultimas. This is a simple fact. Yes, they are also RPGs, but mainly in the sense of developing attributes, hording items, and combat. BG and Torment take certain aspects from both genres. KotOR too. They are "adventure/RPGs", thats pretty undeniable.

Many things make up an RPG. Freedom of choosing your "role", an open world, convincing NPCs, character development, combat, stat/item hording, etc. For me, whats most important is playing a character in a world that is as _convincingly_real_ as possible, with as much freedom as possible, also in terms of style of play and approach to problems. Many devices are used to try and build this "convincing" aspect. One is non-linearity, another is, yes, dialogue, another is NPC behaviour (for example reactions to you, having their own schedules), freedom of choice, and the list goes on. Oblivion excels in many of these factors a hell of a lot better than any RPG in recent memory.

I liked BG and Torment, and they have left a stronger impression on me than Oblivion. But not because they are better RPGs. In terms of ROLE-playing, personally I got much more of that out of Oblivion.

And like I said, I dont care if people dont like Oblivion, and love BG/PT - thats fine with me. All I'm saying is, what happened to the "resurgence" of RPGs that came with the success of FO/BG? Why have recent attempts (NWN,DD,KotOR 2,etc) failed to achieve success? Oh yeah - all that success was deflected into the Final Fantasies and MMORPGs.

Oblivion's success simply means studios pitching old-school RPGs arent going to get laughed out of the publishers offices for the next couple years. Hate Oblivion if you want, but this is true, and if you dont understand that you should be damn grateful for that, you're an idiot, and probably a closet-FPSer.

The same way Fahrenheit (love it or hate it) has made adventure games attractive to publishers again, Oblivion has given RPGs another chance.

You're a complete moron. Oblivion had ZERO dialogue. YOU CAN NOT HAVE AN RPG WITHOUT DIALOGUE. It was an exploration simulator. Moron.

I never understood why so many people on forums are so trigger-happy with their flames. Grow the fuck up.

Anyway, I guess the Phantasie series arent RPGs then. They had almost no dialogue. Neither did Demon's Winter, if I remember correctly. The Ultimas had quite a lot of dialogue, but ultimately it was quite limited, and not any more sophisticated than Oblivion, if not even less so (at least pre-U6). Wasteland had in fact virtually no incidental dialogue at all, only hotspot-triggered NPC monologues. Oh, and Dungeon Master had no dialogue, and its even *gasp* first-person and real-time! Stop the presses! DM isnt an RPG after all!!! OMG decades worth of computer mags and RPG sites have to be corrected!
Contrarywise clearly Final Fantasy is a brilliant shining example of prime RPG holiness. Oh yes, lots of ROLE-playing there.

[Mismatch]

ahoy, you cockmonger.
All your arguments about oblivion and RPGs are invalid.

<b>Newsflash</b>
<b>Oblivion isnt a RPG</b>
Betsoft has fooled you.

computer mags and RPG sites

Old attempts at making RPGs cant really count as RPGs, since they are only one step in the evolutionary development.
A true RPG is more than a main character with stats.
Oblivion has taken the development back a notch, and thus, regressed the whole genre.
Which is why I dont view oblivion as a rpg, but rather a bloody moronic game.
Made for, more or mess, bloody morons.

[vx trauma]

Taking Back Stalingrad

Best band name I've heard in a good while. Maybe, like, you and me, buddy, could start an interweb band, eh?

count me in on drums/noise! Ja!

talking about horror, exploding grannies and dogs, heard new queen dance remix. utter terror.

[Redeye]

Many things make up an RPG.

Those experienced in the genre are bored/sick of the LCD implementation.

There is supposed to be advancement of the art form itself.

Graphics, scripted crap... etc.

These are examples of corporate crap.

I want real content.

If I complain about arbirtrariness/etc. in an adventure game, I get some dick saying "that's not how it works."

That Siberia asshole said: "zere are not commonly ze choices/etc..."

Fuck all of those assholes.

I demand progress

If a game comes out now, I demand P:ST/FO dialogue as an absolute minimum.

Non-negotiable.

I just finished COC - in God Mode... I don't consider that cheating.

Why?

Because it wasn't a REAL game.

Designer cheating is absolutely unacceptable.

Fuck you, and you know who you are.

Fuck you.

Why do you make crap?

Try some reading: Foucalt's Pendulum is a good start.


Lionheart was the Last Straw.

If anyone invilved in that is still around, I want thier email, for spamcrusade.

Die idiots die

[Frater Perdurabo]

Many things make up an RPG. Freedom of choosing your "role", an open world, convincing NPCs, character development, combat, stat/item hording, etc. For me, whats most important is playing a character in a world that is as _convincingly_real_ as possible, with as much freedom as possible, also in terms of style of play and approach to problems. Many devices are used to try and build this "convincing" aspect. One is non-linearity, another is, yes, dialogue, another is NPC behaviour (for example reactions to you, having their own schedules), freedom of choice, and the list goes on. Oblivion excels in many of these factors a hell of a lot better than any RPG in recent memory.

Don't be stupid. Oblivion is 100% linear, just as Morrowind was. Just because you have a large variety of quests (i.e. guilds that you can join), it won't mean that you can complete the game in a different manner. The main storyline is always the same, and it won't matter whether you are doing it as a mage, fighter or thief, because you are doing the same shit anyway. All you choose is the manner in which you kill. That, I call linear.

Oblivion's success simply means studios pitching old-school RPGs arent going to get laughed out of the publishers offices for the next couple years. Hate Oblivion if you want, but this is true, and if you dont understand that you should be damn grateful for that, you're an idiot, and probably a closet-FPSer.

Since when did Oblivion represent old-school RPGs? Think your shit through before you start posting idiocities.

[urgrue]

Don't be stupid. Oblivion is 100% linear, just as Morrowind was. Just because you have a large variety of quests (i.e. guilds that you can join), it won't mean that you can complete the game in a different manner.

How many different endings or ways to play are there in Wasteland? Oh yeah, its not an RPG either, is it?
Theres a pretty big difference between having a linear main plot (which you can ignore!) within a non-linear open world vs a totally linear everything. The vast majority of all RPGs fall in the former category - its actually pretty rare to have multiple endings/options. Oh well, I guess ultima, phantasie, wizardry, none of these are RPGs either.

Since when did Oblivion represent old-school RPGs? Think your shit through before you start posting idiocities.

Apparently you didnt read my post. I pointed out many major similarities. You however neither contested my points nor offered your own counter-arguments, besides the one above that I just refuted.

I love how at least three or four individuals posting here think only THEY know exactly what an RPG is. I've been doing RPGs for nearly three decades. Saying oblivion isnt an RPG means you are either talking pen-and-paper RPG (which is just silly - CRPG is assumed by default when we're talking about FO or any other CRPG), or youre a pseudo-elitist wannabe. The posts here definitely sound more like the latter.

Don't bother replying, I'm going back to the wasteland forums where people actually discuss instead of just flame and the average age doesnt end in "teen". This place is pathetic.

[Blargh]

I'm going

No ! Don't go. We . . . need you.

[Frater Perdurabo]

Don't be stupid. Oblivion is 100% linear, just as Morrowind was. Just because you have a large variety of quests (i.e. guilds that you can join), it won't mean that you can complete the game in a different manner.

How many different endings or ways to play are there in Wasteland? Oh yeah, its not an RPG either, is it?
Theres a pretty big difference between having a linear main plot (which you can ignore!) within a non-linear open world vs a totally linear everything. The vast majority of all RPGs fall in the former category - its actually pretty rare to have multiple endings/options. Oh well, I guess ultima, phantasie, wizardry, none of these are RPGs either.

I never said that Oblivion wasn't an RPG. I said that it's linear, so stop making shit up. Yes, in Oblivion you have a a large variety of quests, but:
1) All the quests are always completed in the same fashion
2) They have no effect whatsoever on the main storyline
Conclusion: Linear.
Is that concept a little too hard for you to grasp? I'm not saying that Oblivion isn't an RPG, I'm saying that it fucking sucks.

Apparently you didnt read my post. I pointed out many major similarities. You however neither contested my points nor offered your own counter-arguments, besides the one above that I just refuted.

I love how at least three or four individuals posting here think only THEY know exactly what an RPG is. I've been doing RPGs for nearly three decades. Saying oblivion isnt an RPG means you are either talking pen-and-paper RPG (which is just silly - CRPG is assumed by default when we're talking about FO or any other CRPG), or youre a pseudo-elitist wannabe. The posts here definitely sound more like the latter.

How about trying to counter some of my arguements instead of quoting shit that I never said?

Don't bother replying, I'm going back to the wasteland forums where people actually discuss instead of just flame and the average age doesnt end in "teen". This place is pathetic.

Boo-hoo.

[Fa11lloutfan_15]

Don't bother replying, I'm going back to the wasteland forums where people actually discuss instead of just flame and the average age doesnt end in "teen". This place is pathetic.

These Wasteland forums?

[St. Toxic]

Gobble gobble

Crpg background machinery is defined by a minimum of four aspects. The choice of skills, the impact of chosen skills, the choice of action, the impact of chosen action. Oblivion allows for one of these to surface in the process of character creation, and then afterwards dismisses the whole concept all together -- skill improvement is overall not a choice you yourself make, the impact of your skills is hardly present, your set of actions in the main quest are non existant, and the impact of a non existant choice is ofcourse equally non existant. This, without going into the Oblivion monologue system, generic storyline, art direction and generally faulty coding, invalidates Oblivion as a true contestant on the crpg end of the table, without necessarily pointing out that it is also a bad fp fighting game set in a fantasy world with reworked rpg elements, which is a choice I'd rather leave to the players themselves.