Peak Oil

[KrokGloken]

At least I have a fucking source, not some 3rd grade roundabout geography knowledge.

Also, I admit I could be wrong, you stubborn, conceited fuckshit!

His mouth is the source, and just as reliable as anything else in this internet focused world. Do you trust everything you see? Because I can easily go make up a website that gives in clearly written text that tells everyone how the US government has capitulated after Saddam shot and killed the Bush family and Killzig is now God-Emperor of Earth.


And really, what the shit does any of this matter. The world goes down in oil-wars, nukes fly, we all burn. Such is life. EVERYTHING DIES. I'd rather die in the nuclear fireball that would envelope my portion of the US than rot away over twenty years from cancer and old age. Human nature and our history shows that we <i>can</i> and we <i>have</i> overcome some pretty damn big obstacles. If there is any hope for survival, I'll be damned if someone manages to pass up the chance to solve it for personal or, rarely, societary gain. We'll start burning coal until the skies are on fire. Fuck the environment. Propagation and survival of the species is basic nature, and if that is what it takes, then that is what we will do until we run out of that. Then we'll go on to wood, and so on and so on.
If it doesn't happen? Damn. Missed out on a good alternative to suicide.

I know, everything can be falsified. Not every printed and typed word is set-in-stone. I just am choosing to believe this particular article.

[Jimmyjay86]

Remember from basic economics on the market forces of supply and demand? As supply starts to dwindle, then the price increases. As price increases then competing technologies become more cost-effective. The demand will shift to another resource which will be able to support the needs before any wide-spread collapse happens. There are plenty of other resources out there which don't make economic sense now because of the relatively cheap price of oil.

[Franz Schubert]

JJ you're right. There will be no oil doomsday. Get a grip people.

[Kashluk]

Indeed. The only "oil doomsday" there is is the situation when people try to get used to filling their tanks with liquified hydrogen instead of petrol.

[Neon Dingo]

Goddammit, did you people even read the article?

Hydrogen is energy negative, meaning it costs more energy to produce it than it actually makes.

Until you can show me something that burns much more energy than it takes to produce (fossil fuel) you are pulling the wool over your own eyes and placing your faith in science to guide you sheep off of a cliff to destruction.

All I see you saying is this: "Oh, well if we run out, don't worry. Science will save us!" If it happened tomorrow we wouldn't have anything good enough to replace oil, and that is a fact. We'd be fucked.

Placing your faith in science is just as idiotic as placing your faith in the government or God.

[POOPERSCOOPER]

What do you want us to do? We either put are faith in the systems or bitch like you. If you want to make a difference go buy one of those hybird cars or electric cars, since electric is so much in abundense. lewl. That why CA had the whole problem of abundance of electricity, and the surrounding states were so nice as to give us some of their electricity for a very low low price. LEWL.

[Core Puzzle]

Neon Dingo, what do you want us to do? Panic and run around screaming? I don't mind placing my faith in science, there's not much else i can do? And what the fuck does it matter where i or anyone else puts their faith, does that change anything?

[jetbaby]

Core and POOPER sum it up pretty well, but I'll throw in my two cents. You don't put your faith in science. You don't put your faith in government. You don't put your faith in a higher being. You whine. What the hell do you want everyone to do? Just run around and scream and cry about how no one can save us? Boo-hoo. I highly suggest you find faith in something otherwise you will wander alone and empty for your entire life without reason to live. You will waste even more of that precious fuel you are so adamant we will die from the lack of that could be put to better use.

[Franz Schubert]

Hydrogen is energy negative, meaning it costs more energy to produce it than it actually makes.

By hydrogen, I'm assuming you are referring to nuclear fusion. If this is the case, then yes it's true we haven't yet broken even (the energy output is still < input). But that's only because no government has given researchers enough funding or commitment. The prototype fusion reactors that currently exist in Japan are still extremely inefficient. With the proper technological implementation, fusion could be a source of TREMENDOUS power.

[Grey Fil]

The porblem with existing hidrogen burning motors is that it requires a high level of energy to start the process, and high temperatures to keep the process going. This causes the motors to be very delicate, expensive, short lived and dangerous. But burning H2 with O2 to give H2O is not energy negative. Its just cheaper and easier to have the traditional motors working while whe can.
The hidding technology by the oil companies theory is actually partially true. Many oil companies have the patents for several alternative means of producing energy, but they will only implement them when it is cheaper then using the existing traditional internal combustion engine.

[Kashluk]

Yup. The point is, that when oil becomes *too expensive* to be used as the basis of all industry and manifacturing, some other fuel will replace it. Simple as that.

This world is run by capitalism and everything that goes mass produced has to follow it's rules. Nothing fancier. There IS technology available that could provide us with half-a-dozen new energy sources, it just needs to be developed further - and that takes money, which is the core of capitalism.

As a bigger problem than "oil doomsday" I would see the over-population and poorness of the third world countries. Get the people there to school, get them some food and condoms and put the land they're sitting on into good use.

[Grey Fil]

Get the people there to school, get them some food and condoms and put the land they're sitting on into good use.

If only things where that simple.

[Kashluk]

Well, that IS the solution, the problem is how to reach that point of progress

[Jimmyjay86]

Dingo, I'm not sure where you live but here in the US, ethanol fuel is a viable alternative. In fact fuels can be made from many renewable bio sources. In fact in many of the midwestern states, gasoline is a mixture of ethanol and petroleum-based fuel. There is a push to create a blend of 85% ethanol and 15% regular gas to be used for all vehicles in the midwest in the near future. This would drastically cut the reliance on fossil fuels.

Of course that won't help countries with little or no farmland but Canada, the US, etc will be ok!

[Kashluk]

And then there's always the option to use these:


"Häkäpönttöauto", a car run by firewood.
Used during the war when gasoline prices skyrocketed.

[S4ur0n27]

And then there's always the option to use these:


"Häkäpönttöauto", a car run by firewood.
Used during the war when gasoline prices skyrocketed.

Wow, there's only the finnish to build this kind of shit!

[Walks with the Snails]

Goddammit, did you people even read the article?

Haven't you listened to what anyone else has said? It's a bit tough to take the article seriously when it just glosses over important factors with a few sentences. Like, say, supply and demand. He ignores basic ecomomics by just writing off other people's concerns with a couple of throwaway comments that don't really address much. Fact is, as others have said, the reason we like oil so much now is it's cheap. When it fails to be so cheap, other alternatives will look more attractive.

Hydrogen is energy negative, meaning it costs more energy to produce it than it actually makes.

And? That's basic thermodynamics for you. Either this guy isn't too educated or he's just got an agenda. Because 100% efficient energy transfer is a pipe dream, any process is going to be a net negative. The point is to have something useful at the end. Charging your cell phone batteries? IT COSTS MORE ENERGY TO CHARGE THE PHONE THAN IT PRODUCES! OH NOEZ! ARMAGEDDON IS UPON US! But that chemical energy stored in the phone is more useful when you're walking around than the electrical energy coming out of the wall socket. Likewise, yes turning crops into any fuel source is going to result in net energy loss. Those 100 million year old plants you're putting into your car used to have more potential energy, too. But, hey, they're in quite a convenient package now. And it's pretty easy to just suck the oil out of the ground and refine it. Likewise hydrogen fuel is in a more useful package, than, say sun rays, or waste products, or crops.

All I see you saying is this: "Oh, well if we run out, don't worry. Science will save us!" If it happened tomorrow we wouldn't have anything good enough to replace oil, and that is a fact. We'd be fucked.

Placing your faith in science is just as idiotic as placing your faith in the government or God.

Sometimes faith is a pretty good bet. Is the sun coming up tomorrow? Yeah, I'd say I have enough faith it will to plan my life accordingly, though who knows, maybe some crazy aliens will blow it up in the next few hours. It's really not something I'm going to spend too much time dwelling on, though.

[S4ur0n27]

Saying the sun is gonna come up tomorrow isn't faith.


We'll pretty much be fucked when oil goes at 100$/barrel and more, but fucked doesn't mean we'll get Mad Max or FO. We'll just have to drive less, and wait for eletricity-ran cars to be mass-produced..... for the rest I say we're good.

[Grey Fil]

If or when oil becomes extremely expensive then where gonna be in deep shit, all of us worldwide.
Remember that for it to become very expensive it will need to be very scarce. And while you bunch of swell guy (UPS, wrong thread) worry about not having gas to put on your mighty muscle cars, the real problem is that most electricity worldwide is produced by burning fossil fuels. Also the large amounts of foods produced in the developed countries is very dependent on it. It could cause food shortages, lack of electricity and a general erosion in the quality of lifestyle people are used to.
Dont tell me that it would be kool coz I am a mighty hunterz and would live by hunting the animalz in the forest and other BS of the type. The world is severely overpopulated, if our present energy sources where to fail us whe would have the 4 horsemen loose on this little world of ours.

[S4ur0n27]

Quebec hydroelectricity = win.