Rayguns and Robots

Since Bethesda decided to make Fallout 3, we figured we might as well have a forum about it.
SDMVersion3
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Rayguns and Robots

Post by SDMVersion3 »

Fallout 1 was special. Although it contained technology that was futuristic, there was also a very raw, minimilistic feel. It felt like you were living in a world that had been reset by the disaster. Fallout 2 introduced better technology and bigger guns. In Fallout Tactics, we had working robots. Van Buren had many working vehicles and probably would have had a cyborg for an NPC. And POS had cybernetic scorpions and guass miniguns. This is wrong.

Although naturally society would evolve and better weapons would come into play, this serves to cheapen and detract from the setting of a world after catastrophe. So, I for one propose technological stasis. No more Power Armor in stores or working helicopters. Let's get back that struggling to survive feel. There's nothing wrong with high tech, but limit it. It enriches the setting and serves to boon the tech you do have by making it truly unique and special.
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Post by Saint_Proverbius »

I tend to agree. That's one thing I've really hated about the "evolution" of Fallout. It took a hell of a long time to reach a point where you could see anything remotely advanced in the game. Took a bit longer to actually use that advanced stuff.
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Post by Jimmyjay86 »

When I realistically think of survival in a post-apocalyptic wasteland, I think of battling radiation sickness, diseases, maybe some mutated animals, and people unfettered by the constraints of a lawful society. I don't really want a wasteland cluttered with advanced technology or even thriving societies creating more advanced tech. The world has been reduced to a primitive state, knowledge has been lost, and old tech has been rusting away for several hundred years.
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all three of you guys have hit the nail on the head

Post by xbow »

All three of you guys have hit the nail on the head. I see the fallout world as something like an irradiated pre war Afganistan.

Sure there should be some super high tec stuff around but it should be rare and I mean rare. Perhaps some tribals are worshiping a set of power armor hidden away in the dark recesses of a sacred cavern.

I saw a cool twilight zone once where a town in post APOC America was dependant on the advise of an old man that lived inside a mountain close to the town. It turns out that the old man was really a intelligent super computer ticking away inside a vault.

A group like the Brotherhood Of Steel functions much like the monks in the dark ages cataloging researching and saving bits and pieces of ancient technology and its hard even for them to find anything that is completely functional from the technological age.

I also think that weapon inflation goes hand in hand with hit point inflation. At the start of a game you might have 30 or 40 hitpoints and near the end four or five times that, that is a bit over the top. Realisticaly a .45 slug dosent know the difference between an unarmored 3rd level target and an unarmored 20th level target, a solid hit in the brain pan for either should be a death sentence.

I think that at the start of a game hitpoints should be determined by body type, size, endurance, strength, and fixed there unless you put skill points into body development and that investment would raise your hitpoints a little every level. I don't think you should be able to raise your base hit points by more than 50% but in order for that to work Plasma rifles, gauss rifles, laser rifles, miniguns, etc would have to be in very short supply.
Last edited by xbow on Sat Aug 07, 2004 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Hatchen »

Its so true. They should stop having more and more technology, it ruins the feel of the game. what the point of possibly getting a laser gun as standered equipment when you should only start with a spear or possibly only your fists. They shouldn't be able to make bigger and better robots, guns and armour. If they want to do that than at least make the hard to get to, so you accually feel like you accomplished something or got something that hardly anyone else has. In tactics i say they made them to good with tech after a bit, they should possibly be struggling too, trying to take the technology and putting it to use

Also with vehicles, it was unheard of in fallout 1 and it was usefull once you got it in fallout 2, but you had to find the part and the monye. Why not do the same? or make it harder? more stuff missing, more mony cost. this would make it way more special to get. This would make the player apreciate getting the car more. But no unlimited storage, that should be there.
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Post by Koki »

xbow - oooh, do I see realism? I like that.

I don't know about the 'sand and villages' setting. I mean, the world moves on. how many years was in FO2 since war? 150? That IS a lot of time. Unless they'll make a prequel or something.
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Re: Rayguns and Robots

Post by Briosafreak »

SDMVersion3 wrote: Van Buren had many working vehicles and probably would have had a cyborg for an NPC. And POS had cybernetic scorpions and guass miniguns. This is wrong.

Although naturally society would evolve and better weapons would come into play, this serves to cheapen and detract from the setting of a world after catastrophe. So, I for one propose technological stasis. No more Power Armor in stores or working helicopters. Let's get back that struggling to survive feel. There's nothing wrong with high tech, but limit it. It enriches the setting and serves to boon the tech you do have by making it truly unique and special.
Cyborg?...Where?...Are you sure?

In Van Buren decay was everywhere, with the old groups that we`ve known from before strugling to survive, and many others with even less tech than NCR or the small BOS group. So scavenging for small things and the science skill was the most important things in the game, since it allowed the PC to make the best weapons, armour and so forth. And that`s why the few groups that still were trying to produce some new tech were the most dangerous, since there wasn`t much around, with the Enclave beeing whiped out on the end of Fallout2.

Now what i agree is that given this context and the way the BIS devs wanted a more raw, less techy or enclave looking game, like you want to also, then the amount of vehicles doesn`t make sense, and that`s a weakness i`ve brought to their eyes a few times, could make the game less coherent.
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reality

Post by xbow »

The Enclave is toast the Brotherhood Of Steel is ' not the power it once was' so it looks to me like thats the perfect justification to dry up the supply of geewhiz weaponry a bit in Fallout3.

I would like a far more lethal environment in Fallout3 a place where you simply can't always just bludgeon your way to victory. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. Not always having fire supeority via the posession of super sexy weapons over anyone that you might encounter would lead to a more interesting game.

Imagine that you have just encountered a large band of 10- 12 raiders armed with regular old shotguns, assault rifles and a heavy weapon or two and their leader demands that you fork over enough loot to save them the trouble of killing you for it. Call it a forced barter situation, a barter screen opens and on your side of the screen the entire inventory of the party is displayed. You start transfering the worst stuff from your inventory to the barter box and then offer it, you might get several 'your offer is not good enough's' before the Raider is satisfied. What would be really be cool is if the program keeps track of the specific raider group that shook you down and the next time you meet that group the head Raider will want more, he might greet you smiling with something like 'Hola Amigos! now we want three of your best weapons so that we can be styling! '. Eventually you will have to shoot it out or at least take a swipe at them and run for the exit. but at least you wouldnt be able to stand there like a bullet resisting super hero and make them all fall over on command.
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Re: Rayguns and Robots

Post by SDMVersion3 »

Briosafreak wrote:Cyborg?...Where?...Are you sure?
Well, I made up the cyborg part.
Now what i agree is that given this context and the way the BIS devs wanted a more raw, less techy or enclave looking game, like you want to also, then the amount of vehicles doesn`t make sense, and that`s a weakness i`ve brought to their eyes a few times, could make the game less coherent.
And what the hell is up with the Dinosaur? That's a little TOO old...
xbow wrote:I would like a far more lethal environment in Fallout3 a place where you simply can't always just bludgeon your way to victory. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. Not always having fire supeority via the posession of super sexy weapons over anyone that you might encounter would lead to a more interesting game.
Yeah, talking yourself out of the river is often a lot more tense and fun then beating the shit out of everyone with your paddle.
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Post by Franz Schubert »

I'm sure marketing research shows that more little kiddies will buy a game if it's a Sci-fi setting rather than a PA setting D: Hence the rayguns and robots.
xbow wrote:I would like a far more lethal environment in Fallout3 a place where you simply can't always just bludgeon your way to victory. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. Not always having fire supeority via the posession of super sexy weapons over anyone that you might encounter would lead to a more interesting game.
Truer words have never been spoken! :joy: It would really add another level of enjoyment to the game if every problem couldn't simply be solved with violence. Or at least, if you choose to use violence to get your way, there is a legitimate risk involved. The PC should not be capable of slaughtering an entire town, no matter what level he is. Of course, a balance needs to be struck, because I hate it when a game has invincible NPC's, because that makes the game feel like you're being led through the plot by the nose. You shouldn't have to do anything in an RPG.
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Post by SDMVersion3 »

Franz_Schubert wrote:I'm sure marketing research shows that more little kiddies will buy a game if it's a Sci-fi setting rather than a PA setting D: Hence the rayguns and robots.
Marketting is such bullshit. It's basically used to substitute gimmick for quality.
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Post by Franz Schubert »

Marketing is not necessarily bullshit... for instance, polls will clearly show, hypothetically, that people would rather buy a game if the character can cast magic than a non-magic game. And polls will show, for instance, that a turbo-plasma-gauss-gatling-deathray is more important than the subtle things which make a truly good game.

In the face of this marketing evidence, it's easy to see why company executives would demand that their developers spend extra time on those things, and not let them give enough emphasis on the things that matter to people who appreciate quality, who, sadly are the minority. In other words, marketing research shows that consumers are idiots, hence the idiotic games.

Of course, that's not to say that if a game doesn't pander to the idiot masses, it automatically won't sell well... in fact I think that if a game is QUALITY, then it will sell well whether it's TB or RT, or first person or isometric.
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Post by CloudNineGT »

Has anyone read A canticle for Lebowitz? That book sums up exactly how I feel about an after the bomb situation. Maybe not such a huge anti-intellectual backlash, but simply a people reverting to the dark ages. Sure they may be able to utilize the technological goodies they find, but understanding and improving on them is a far cry from the realm of the average sadsack. Fallout 2+ obviously went too far.
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Post by S4ur0n27 »

Went too far too fast.
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Post by Hatchen »

CloudNineGT wrote:Has anyone read A canticle for Lebowitz? That book sums up exactly how I feel about an after the bomb situation. Maybe not such a huge anti-intellectual backlash, but simply a people reverting to the dark ages. Sure they may be able to utilize the technological goodies they find, but understanding and improving on them is a far cry from the realm of the average sadsack. Fallout 2+ obviously went too far.
I totally agree with you, it shouldn't be like survival one game than the next there is a huge technology advance so that even comman folks can run arouind with a half decent weapon.
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Post by Mismatch »

Marketing is not necessarily bullshit...
Well, how about we all gather up a nice lil' mob, complete with torches, hayforks and nude women.
Then we round up all marketing ppl we find, prefferably by poking them with previously mentioned hay forks and torches, and....
Well, I'm not sure what to do next, death just isn't enough....
We could force them to play POS for an eternity, but I am not sure that'd be enough either...
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Post by Retlaw83 »

We'll force them to play POS for eternity as we have our way with the nude women.
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Post by S4ur0n27 »

Hey, I'm studying in marketing, assholes.
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Post by Retlaw83 »

SUSAN'S ONE OF THEM!!
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Post by Kashluk »

He's not the only in the business studies, either...
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