EU constitution

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 8:59 pm

So, what do you think? Should the European Constitution include religious beliefs ie. mentioning Roman Catholic religion as the basis of all Europe? Poland and Italy are all for it, French is the most tightly against along with the great amount of european muslims.

Here's a sample link, but it's all over the news so you can find it elsewhere as well:
-> http://www.secularism.org.uk/newspress/ ... 3t.htm#one

Mandalorian FaLLouT GoD · Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:00 pm

Kashluk wrote:So, what do you think? Should the European Constitution include religious beliefs ie. mentioning Roman Catholic religion as the basis of all Europe? Poland and Italy are all for it, French is the most tightly against along with the great amount of european muslims.

Here's a sample link, but it's all over the news so you can find it elsewhere as well:
-> http://www.secularism.org.uk/newspress/ ... 3t.htm#one

if it contains any mention of religion it will be a useless constitution because there are so many different religions that are part of europe and the people who live in it.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:03 pm

Yeah, that's what they're armwrestling about right now. These traditionally tightly Catholic countries, like Poland and Italy for example (surprise surprise, Polish pope in Vatican, roll-eyes-smiley here), argued their point with that "the whole Western civilization is based on Christian values" even though Crusades and Witchhunts were their achievements as well... not to mention that things like compass, gunpowder and astrology were invented long before any Christian influences. Still all those three were used effectively to "sword-preach" among the heathens, hmpf...

But, like you said Mandalorian, such arrangements cannot work in a union like this, where there are dozens of different religions, with several major ones already.

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:12 pm

Basing it on any religious beliefs would be fuckin stupid and useless, but then again, it's humanity's most redundant trait.

Jimmyjay86 · Post by **Jimmyjay86** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:16 pm

Christianity is old school. Leave it out.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:23 pm

Now that you mentioned it... what is new skool then?

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:36 pm

Kashluk wrote:Now that you mentioned it... what is new skool then?

Buddhism!!

Slave_Master · Post by **Slave_Master** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:39 pm

s4ur0n27 wrote:
Kashluk wrote:Now that you mentioned it... what is new skool then?
Buddhism!!

Buddhism is older than Christianity, twit.

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:40 pm

Slave_Master wrote:
s4ur0n27 wrote:
Kashluk wrote:Now that you mentioned it... what is new skool then?
Buddhism!!
Buddhism is older than Christianity, twit.

This is related to another thread foo.
Kashluk understands.

Sol Invictus · Post by **Sol Invictus** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:15 pm

Religion is for pathetic meatbags who can't fend for themselves emotionally and intellectually. So much so that they need some 'great meatbag' up in the high heavens to look out for them - in theory, of course.

That said, religious meatbags die more easily than the non-religious. Where's your god now, hmm?

Zbyram · Post by **Zbyram** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:32 pm

The thing proposed by Poland isn't as stupid as it seems. In our constitution there's something like "...we the people who believe in god who is the source of truth, and the ones who do not share this faith..." I don't care if they put it in the constitution and I'm against the church in general, but it wouldn't harm anyone if they did. The statement would be fairly neutral and I guess it could satisfy everyone. The real issue with the new constitution is changing the rules of voting from Nice making France and Germany practically the only countries with antything to say and that's NOT good.

Calal · Post by **Calal** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 11:46 pm

Well I can' t believe they' d would want to include one of the causes that tore apart most of Europe on several occasions, in a constitution of a unified Europe. It wouldn' t make sense. That' s almost like judging an entire minority of immigrants based on prejudices and herding them togheter in ghetto' s like they did back in Germany in bygone days and then waving your finger as a no-do, bit still do the same thing afterwards. But hey wait,........................................................................... that' s what we' re already doing right now.

Now I' m all for everyone' s right to practice their own religion and beliefs but I also firmly believe in strong separation of church and state. Some nations had to fight heavy battles just to obtain this and now we' re suppossed to give that all up? We might as well blow our own asses back to the feudal age in that case.

No, thx, I think I' ll pass on that one.

Spazmo · Post by **Spazmo** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 3:11 am

Zbyram wrote:...Poland isn't as stupid as it seems.

You lie. I just saw five Poles put in a light bulb.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:38 am

The rules of voting... Well it seems that the big countries are also pushing through the decision that not all countries would have a comissare (depending on population), which means that the big ones would eat the small ones alive in important decisions.

French and Germany seem to have gotten the whole idea of unified Europe kinda wrong, it isn't The United States of Francermany or shit like that, it's supposed to be all European countries equal together.

Franz Schubert · Post by **Franz Schubert** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 11:33 am

How is the voting supposed to work? It seems like there would have to be some heavy duty electoral college for most of the countries to be satisfied.

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:34 pm

It's hard to mesure one's importance in such an association. But I doubt countries like Belgium should have the same power in it as France or Germany. Obviously you shouldn't either give them all of the power.

All the countries aren't equal for sure tho.

Grey Fil · Post by **Grey Fil** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:42 pm

Mebe 2 chambers, one with proportional representation and another with same number of representatives for each country.

Viktor · Post by **Viktor** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:27 pm

I'm all for a Unified Europe - it the idea of a Federal Europe run by the French and the Germans that gives me the shits! I think the best bet for us Brits to keep our hertitage is to quit the EU and become the 51st State of the Union.

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:44 pm

Canada shall become the 51st.

You get the 52nd.

Btw I'm surprised no one talks about Canada here, it's such internationaly shitty.

Slave_Master · Post by **Slave_Master** » Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:50 pm

s4ur0n27 wrote:Canada shall become the 51st.

You get the 52nd.

Btw I'm surprised no one talks about Canada here, it's such internationaly shitty.

That's because DAC is a culturally and ethnically diverse community -- which means the United States is the only country that's acceptable to bash.

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EU constitution

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