First Fallout Enforcer E3 thingy!

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Tue May 20, 2003 4:48 pm

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Odin over at <a href="http://www.nma-fallout.com">No Mutants Allowed</A> has managed to find an <a href="http://www.rpgamer.com/event/e3-2003/im ... l.html">E3 preview dealie</a> of <a href="http://www.interplay.com/fbos">Fallout Enforcer</a> which makes it sounds like a real treat to play! Here's part of the exciting, fun filled action testimonial from <a href="http://www.rpgamer.com/">RPGamer</a>:
 
 <blockquote>Gameplay itself looked like a bad third-person shooter. All I did in the demo level was point towards my foe and wail bullets into his poor body, followed by more and more of the same. Rescuing civillians broke the monotony, but that's one overused cliche. Eventually finding a key on a civillian allowed access to another area, but it looked like more shoot 'em up fest again once advancing to that area. The game even lacks a targetting system, so I had to actually aim to kill enemies, which isn't much fun in third person. </blockquote>
 
 Yes, folks, it's that good! Man, looks like <a href="http://www.interplay.com">Interplay</a> has a hit on their hands with this one!
 
 Oh, and Odin also says that <a href="http://www.pcgamer.com">PC Gamer</a> is interested in your opinion of <a href="http://www.interplay.com/fbos">Fallout Enforcer</a>, so you should <a href="mailto:alternatelives@pcgamer.com">email it to them</a>.

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Tue May 20, 2003 7:50 pm

I am confused about one thing, FOBOS aside, but he's complaining about the shooting, and how it had no targeting. Now I may be an old school gamer who grew up with Robotron and Ikari warriors, but since when was using good old fashion dexterity bothersome in an action game? Why in the WORLD would he bitch that there is no targeting? Targeting has been the joke of the action gaming world...always targets the wrong person, thusly conflicting with camera placement to get you a good view of said target, and it diminishes all need for skill to play the game? Its no different than pointing on a creature and watching your character shoot it until it dies ( Dungeon Siege ).

Odin wrote: The game even lacks a targetting system, so I had to actually aim to kill enemies, which isn't much fun in third person.

<blockquote>Hasn't every game since the dawn of time been a 3rd person shooter for the most part? Especially top down?</blockquote>

I don't care about FOBOS one way or the other. I'm concerened about the previewers priotrities when it comes to action games. This seems a tad contradictory. You want control in games but then you don't? If you want to have journalistic intergrity, you can't pick and choose things you don't like about a game cuz you simply don't like the game. Having to rescue citizens and find the 'right' one to open a door...now that IS cliche and a great critique, but to critique an action game for playing like...get this...AN ACTION game is plan sillyness and looking for faults just to find faults.

Again don't get me wrong, but I play action games as well as RPG's, graphic adventures, FPS's, 3PS', puzzle games, racing games, sports games. If a game does its job in its genre, you can't fault it UNLESS it did that poorly.

I think you guys get my point.

Cheers

Rosh · Post by **Rosh** » Tue May 20, 2003 7:55 pm

I think you missed their point. In an engine like BG:DA, the control directions are a bitch, especially when they are relative to camera position. That is what bites a lot of console platforms in the ass.

Hell, the different camera angles in the Tomb Raider games played merry hell with the controls more often than not.

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Tue May 20, 2003 8:04 pm

Hey Rosh. Well that actually was MY point...describe the merits or lack thereof, of a game. So if the action was poor due to implementation, by all means, I've played my share of action 3PS's with horrible control. Don't just say the action sucks because its FOBOS. Also, I highly doubt he had camera control probs since its top down. Hunter Reckoning was HELLA fun to play, and its the same perspective and gameplay as FOBOS. Most of the time these games are puting the camera on one analog stick to control 'heading', while the other analog controls forward/backward and strafing motions, which gives you a very satisfying control similar to the games I mentioned in my last post.

Cheers!

Human Shield · Post by **Human Shield** » Tue May 20, 2003 9:35 pm

I don't believe aiming and movement are independantly controlled. One attack button shoots infront of you, and we are dealing with 360 degrees and not 4 directions.

Hope that PC gamer writer gets the real story about the developers not respecting or following the Fallout universe and won't write about unreasonable rabid fans. Get enough well-written e-mails in.

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Tue May 20, 2003 10:04 pm

Human Shield wrote:I don't believe aiming and movement are independantly controlled. One attack button shoots infront of you, and we are dealing with 360 degrees and not 4 directions.

Huh? Who said 4 directions?

DJ SlamÃƒÂ¡k · Post by **DJ SlamÃƒÂ¡k** » Tue May 20, 2003 10:05 pm

EvoG wrote:I am confused about one thing, FOBOS aside, but he's complaining about the shooting, and how it had no targeting. Now I may be an old school gamer who grew up with Robotron and Ikari warriors, but since when was using good old fashion dexterity bothersome in an action game? Why in the WORLD would he bitch that there is no targeting?

What's even more fun is that FOBOS is supposed to have automated targeting, which was noted by Chuck as a true revolution in gaming. Have they been just unable to implement it yet, or feature == canned?

swordinstone · Post by **swordinstone** » Tue May 20, 2003 10:06 pm

I can think of a few that have already had it... Metal Gear Solid 2, for one.

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Tue May 20, 2003 10:08 pm

DJ SlamÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¡k wrote:What's even more fun is that FOBOS is supposed to have automated targeting, which was noted by Chuck as a true revolution in gaming. Have they been just unable to implement it yet, or feature == canned?

Hehe...revolution huh? Oh sheesh....he needs to stop

Cheers

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Tue May 20, 2003 10:13 pm

Regardless of what game has what targeting...do you know why auto-targeting was invented!?

TO FIX THE PROBLEM WITH THE DAMN CAMERA.

Fuck I wish they'd stop making these ass fucking console games where the god damn game practically plays for you. Whats the difference between Dragons Lair, and hitting the button or joystick at the right moment or to hit auto target and fire at the 'right moment'.

ITS AN ACTION GAME.

Targeting is a kludge to fix another problem...not a fucking feature. Dev's need to get this concept out of their fucking brains. IDIOTS!!!

Cheers!

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Wed May 21, 2003 12:51 am

That's really the problem with games like this. You either have no auto-targetting, which can be a problem considering the swinging camera stuff disorienting the player, making it difficult to do and highly frustrating.. Or you have the auto-targetting, which is what Chuck Cuevas said it'd have, and it ends up being a game where you hold down the fire button and dance around with your little dude. The end result on both is a really crappy experience for the gamer.

Red · Post by **Red** » Wed May 21, 2003 1:23 am

You'll eventually probably be able to choose your targets using the L/R buttons!

HOW GROUNDBRAKING! I'M WETTING MY PANTIES ALREADY.

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Wed May 21, 2003 1:54 am

Keep in mind guys, that writer was allegedly put off by the fact that there was no auto targeting, and complained that he had to 'actually aim' to kill enemies.

My initial point was about judging the merits of a game for the game, and I kinda side tracked on the whole auto targeting thing. No doubt FOBOS will have issues with us fans, but to say that an ACTION GAME was problamatic for you because you had to actually 'play' the game is a tad silly, and shows how our beloved dev's created this faction of gamers that want the game to practically play itself for them.

Was FOBOS shitty because it wasn't fun to play due to poor implementation of gameplay or was it bad simply because it was FOBOS?
Objectivity will make arguments against the game more intelligent and righteous. That last sentence in his 2nd paragraph is embarrassing, especially when you keep in mind its an action game.

The game even lacks a targetting system, so I had to actually aim to kill enemies, which isn't much fun in third person.

Yikes

Cheers

Red · Post by **Red** » Wed May 21, 2003 2:00 am

What I interpret from that (though admitably it supposes the reviewer has some brains which is questionable at best) is that the 3rd person view is reminiscent of the Lara Croft types of games (thought possibly a bit higher perspective judgnign by the various screenshots), but without the auto-aim.

Now I'm sorry but Lara without some form of auto-aim sounds horrible though I admit I have little experience with such games (other then Lara...) specially on the console.

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Wed May 21, 2003 2:55 am

Yeah, you're right RED, but thats where his example gets even more embarrassing...Tomb Raider IS a true 3rd person game, where its quite clear FOBOS is like the one I mentioned in my first post ( Hunter Reckoning ) or BG:DA, which are all top down or 3/4 angle games.

The ONLY reason Tomb Raider was difficult was due to VERY poor camera implementation. In defense of 3rd person games, Hitman 2 and Splinter Cell for example have wonderful aiming and camera controls. Again, implementation. Some designers understand this and a LOT don't.

Cheers

Post by **DarkUnderlord** » Wed May 21, 2003 3:57 am

RPG wrote:There were some disappointing games at E3, and unfortunately for Vivendi and Interplay, this was one of hose games.

"one of hose games." I like that, somone should give Team Chuck a good hosing.

RPG wrote:Is there anything promising in Fallout?

*cough* He should specify FO:BOS here. Wouldn't want someone to think he was referring to the original Fallouts.

RPG wrote:This isn't what I'm looking for at all in an RPG.

Right here's your problem I think, EvoG. It's an RPG site. They're reviewing an "Action" game with "RPG elements", Interplay claim FO:BOS is an "action RPG". Also, given that it is merely a "first impression" I wouldn't expect much of a review. These are his first impressions, not his detailed panning.

Radoteur · Post by **Radoteur** » Wed May 21, 2003 6:19 am

I like games where I just hold down a button and watch my character run around the screen killing all the baddies for me. I really wish that they'd make it just a wee bit easier. My finger gets tired after a while. Holding down a button isn't as easy as it sounds.

Red · Post by **Red** » Wed May 21, 2003 11:16 am

It beats having to press it multiple times like the old NES days! Although back then you had to "aim"...

EvoG wrote:which are all top down or 3/4 angle games.

Isn't that still third person though? It meaning "not first person". Or does the "third person" nomenclature assumes the camera's POV locked in synch with the head (or something like that)?

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Thu May 22, 2003 10:24 am

What the hell happened to my post? I replied to you Red yesterday and now its gone?

KILLZIG?!!!!? WHAT ARE YOU DOING!!!

*sigh*

Killzig · Post by **Killzig** » Thu May 22, 2003 10:30 am

i dont know wtf is going on my arguement with red is gone too.