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Kashluk
Grand MF
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Joined: 15 May 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:20 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Does anyone know more about the Zeitgeist movement? I got interested about it since I was asked to participate in a conferess called 'From the corruption of money towards viable solutions', which is organized by (and themes revolve around) Zeitgeist people. I took a quick look at their website and Wikipedia, but all I could gather was that it's some sort of a New-Age'ish communism manifesto which has kept the determinist view of history, but changed the stepping stones from worker's revolution and socialism to high-tech revolution and buddhist mumbo-jumbo(?). Everyone shares everything and there's no money. The banks are evil and they're corrupting the system and slowing us down as human beings. Sound familiar? Their forums are full of people planning to startup independent, self-sufficient compounds or colonies and live their life a new.

I'd wish to know if my first impressions are, more or less, correct or is there actually something deeper to this movement? The most alarming thing was that I've seen their material posted on the Uni campus as well, at the faculty of Economics. To think that someone who actually studies the subject would be drawn to this...

Links:
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Zeitgeist_Movement
- http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/
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CloudNineGT
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:00 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

That was my reaction too when a friend informed me that I absolutely MUST see this Zeitgeist film. "How could anyone educated even possibly buy into this?" The film simply exploits a few well known ideas such as the section on religion and its commonality of origin. Not revolutionary in any sense of the word but kind of like a Dan Brown novel the rhetoric manages to wrap enough "facts" around a bogus framework that they were never meant to resemble as a completed whole. Then, oh shit, does it ever pile on the conspiracy theory madness.

Its lunacy and I'm horrified to see that its gaining acceptance. They've polished their message quite a bit since its YouTube infancy but it seems no less retarded in the end.
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jimmypneumatic
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:04 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I've never understood how people expect to live in peace with each other without needing some form of control. As much as I dislike institutions such as the FDA, they are (grudgingly) required, at least this day in age.

Also, this reminds me of the luddites. It was a group in the early industrial revolution that shunned all forms of the new and growing technology. Needless to say they didn't get anywhere.
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SenisterDenister
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Joined: 23 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:53 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Conspiracy theory people are gullible and stupid, straight up.
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Megatron
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Joined: 19 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

i prefer the poltergeist movement of smashing shit up and raizin sum hell on da border icon_chainsaw

i watched what the bleep do we know or whatever the fuck once that was a bit shit after the first third if you know what i mean so whatever
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Dogmeatlives
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:04 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I don't see why you guys are against this sort of thing... sure it's a bit paranoid, but it encourages people not to trust those in power. I think thats a hell of a good thing.

and with the amount of actual conspiracies that are known to be perpetrated by the powerful of the world, it's seems a bit odd when people are so willing to dismiss a new conspiracy.

I think ten years ago if someone had come out telling us that the U.S. was torturing prisoners it would have been a straight up crackpot theory, but the pictures came out and you cant dismiss them.

I, personally, am all for this Zeitgeist thing. The religion thing is most def regurgitated from known theories on the subject and the 9/11 thing, whether true or not, is a waste of time. The bit about a global government run by evil bankers.... I can see it.
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jimmypneumatic
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:39 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I'm not saying their ideals in general are necessarily bad, i just think they're unrealistic. This quote addresses the beginnings of what all societies fear most, a rampant totalitarian government that gives rights only to those in power...

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." -Thomas Jefferson

The weight of responsibility falls squarely on the people that make laws, I think if were going to find an equilibrium in government, we need to work on electing officials that listen to an established majority and concentrate more responsible people in government that actually care about what we want. At the same time, total control over a people is impossible without taking away individuals rights, too many differing opinions and motives of what should be common law.

But what they're proposing is an idealistic vision of anarchy, and I don't believe the average joe-shmoe is responsible enough to take into count the many and often difficult to stomach consequences of his actions.
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Kashluk
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:10 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Dogmeatlives, I'm not personally against critical thinking or authority questioning. I believe those are good and healthy things for a healthy individual to possess. The problem is with the movement itself: it's like a mixture of neo-communism and theocracy together in a science fiction utopia. The Zeitgeist-films speak against religion (opium for the masses), but then the Zeitgeist-movement is a religion in itself, spreading the 'gospel' of evil bankers and futuristic tomorrow-land with little to none factual evidence or plausible theories. The alternatives they propose do not seem to have anything to do with reality yet the movement's members (or followers) are passionate about the subject, even to the point of fanaticism. These are the things that worry me.
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Blargh
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:56 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Any obstacle to The Truth (that is, that none of this, or any of you, actually exist(s) in any sense of the word), is a <deleted> thing. Yes.

Unhinged unwitting metafuckery. icon_drunk
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CloudNineGT
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:34 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
Is population growth really that bad? The answer is that from a scientific perspective the earth can handle many, many times more people if need be, once high technology is harnessed.

Quote:
Our avocation is to achieve a social system which operates without money or politics, while allowing superstition to work itself out as education flourishes.

Quote:
In a true society, people would follow their natural inclinations and work to contribute to society not because they are "paid" for it, but because they have a greater awareness which recognizes that contributing to society helps them just as much as everyone else.


HIGH TECHNOLOGY will save us all. Group hug world!

Quote:
It isn't the right of any person to tell another what to believe, for no human has a full understanding of anything.
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Megatron
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:52 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

isnt the quotored man wrong then as well, duhhhhh

"fire and forget missiles"

though i agree with idealism i also believe in the status quo as well as the band status quo; thoroughly already fucked. life flashing before your eyes as blood dribbles on optical nerves dude, its to late just wipe her off and get a haircut-
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Redeye
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:10 am Reply with quoteBack to top

CloudNineGT wrote:
Quote:
Is population growth really that bad? The answer is that from a scientific perspective the earth can handle many, many times more people if need be, once high technology is harnessed.

Quote:
Our avocation is to achieve a social system which operates without money or politics, while allowing superstition to work itself out as education flourishes.

Quote:
In a true society, people would follow their natural inclinations and work to contribute to society not because they are "paid" for it, but because they have a greater awareness which recognizes that contributing to society helps them just as much as everyone else.


HIGH TECHNOLOGY will save us all. Group hug world!

Quote:
It isn't the right of any person to tell another what to believe, for no human has a full understanding of anything.



People are dicks.

I have to be PAID, because I cannot trust the hive except to the extent that nobody else trusts the hive.

Sure, high tech can stretch resources, but it will be half-assed 11th Hour patches, not wise planning that will get implemented.
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PiP
Last, Best Hope of Humanity
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Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:22 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

sounds a bit like communism on steroids, especially the 'no property' part.

my reservations are that even though ideals can be commendable, in practise it can turn out to be a nightmare. Also unnatural acceleration of social change (getting rid of social structures like nations or religions (r-ous groups)) could be disastrous. If we are ever to evolve in this direction as a species (not just individuals), it needs time.

edit: lol I didn't even read your whole post Kashluk before posting my crap dumb
Blargh wrote:
Unhinged unwitting metafuckery. icon_drunk
well put


Last edited by PiP on Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Superhaze
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Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Bah! Communism, fascism, enlightened-techno-liberalism or whatever the fuck you wanna call it, its sci-fi, and its all a little to L Ron Hubbie for me.

I would however like to mention that I am not completely against the ideas of anarcho-communism but this is some crazy shit.
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VasikkA
No more Tuna
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Joined: 15 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Part truth, part deceptive oversimplification and part outright lies has been the weapon of choice for consipiracy theorists for ages. Luckily these guys aren't smart enough to acquire positions of any significance and are bound to remain marginal. Conspiracy theories stem from incapability and/or unwillingness* to perceive reality as it is.

Unwillingness due to the fact that, in the end, everybody is promoting their own selfish agenda and tin foil hats or communists are no exception.
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PiP
Last, Best Hope of Humanity
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Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:57 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

magic is good for coping.

in related news I've just watched the men who stare at goats - better than I expected in an unexpected way.
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Kickstand27
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Joined: 15 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:18 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Quote:
It isn't the right of any person to tell another what to believe, for no human has a full understanding of anything.
[/quote]

ahahah thats awesome



as for the whole "we need control" thing.. subjective.. i know its a tangent but.. we dont need it to exist.. society needs it to remain a society.. its not needed just to be.
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