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 New Las Vegas and the possible future of Fallout... View next topic
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FsEtNrDaEtR92
Scarf-wearing n00b
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Joined: 15 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:10 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Before any of this continues, this post is very long, and I'm not getting my hopes up about this game. However, with the announcement of Obsidian (the current house for previous Black Isle/Interplay employees) as the developer, I have hope. However, how much control Bethesda has on the project could completely affect the game.

I had not heard of the Fallout franchise until the announcement of Fallout 3. At the time, I owned Oblivion and was convinced it was the greatest RPG ever (ignorance if I've ever known it, but we all must learn some time) and was excited about this game. Having no clue about the direction of the franchise, I got on Wikipedia and began reading about this franchise I had never heard of (I was born in 92', so I was a little young to be playing Fallout).

I downloaded the original Fallout (via torrent because I'm cheap) and found it a mediocre experience, especially because I couldn't get the patch to work that removes the 100 day limit (or however many days it was). I uninstalled Fallout and waited awhile until trying the second one, which does not have the same day limit. My entire outlook on gaming changed after that I finished it.

Playing Fallout 2 revealed to me my own ignorance about gaming. Without a guide, I could not even make it slightly far into Fallout 2, not understanding the way the game is meant to be played as compared to current RPG's. I learned the quests are there to be done, not as an option to leave behind because you've already killed 200 rats. You helped people not just because of the experience or the rewards reaped, but because the simple helpful act actually made a difference in the world. Sure, reclaiming a teddy bear is not exactly glamorous, but you actually got a good feeling that you made some kid stuck in a sucky world's life better for just 1 minute.

The real surprise came whenever I returned to the village at the beginning of the game to find out that everyone had been killed, and I already had the G.E.C.K.!!! The game didn't wait for me, it didn't sit in some kind of time-warp people to await my messiac return with salvation. The game killed off characters because I took too long to save them. This experience made me realize the simplicity in modern RPG's. While you get choices, there are plot events that are completely unavoidable. In Fallout, there were no boundaries other than life and death.

So, after my discovery of the masterpiece that was Fallout 2, I played Bethesda's child known as Fallout 3. Not truly disappointed, I felt the game had a good base, combat was different but the original Fallout's systems weren't exactly nobel-prize worthy, environments were renderred beautifully (for the first few hours), and character models were adapted well to a new environment. I didn't mind the FPS transition as it allowed a bit more detailed exploration and appreciation for the models around me.

The only problem (which for me shows the true fault with the game in comparison to its predecessors) was the lack of depth and care in the game. It turned from the pity ridden post-apocalyptic wasteland to the post-apocalyptic theme park that for some reason hasn't changed over 200 years. True, with bigger technology the Fallout universe needed expansion, however it needed expansion in a way that makes sense. I don't believe super heroes, Tenpenny Tower, and ghoul political activists really made a deep experience, just a chance to show you how much Bethesda can take a great idea and run in the opposite direction.

With DLC came more reasons to blow up raiders with even bigger guns and ridiculous armors. I like Bethesda's ideas to expand into new territories, but it still presents the same lack of depth as the base game. The game that changed my entire outlook on games as a whole was reduced to primitive status by explosions in V.A.T.S..

Now, onto New Las Vegas. Bethesda has brought in a third-party developer to create this game that, as I said before, has previous employees that created the original Fallouts. This got my hopes up. I knew that the FP view was probably here to stay, and that the overall feel would be predominantly FO3ish. The hope for me lies in the possible creation of depth, a chance for players of this generation to experience the reality of Fallout: the world is not waiting for you to fix it. It will continue to die and grow.

As for how Obsidian can do this is beyond me. With the current demand for NPC's, talking-heads will seem like a step backwards to some. But at least NPC's can have some depth and dialogue to them, to the point where what comes out of their mouth is actually important. If Black Isle didn't hook you in with drama, humor, or other weird sayings, then the character was probably trying to kill you. What's the point of having these dead characters walking around that only say the same things?

I'd like to see actual consequences to the choices you make as a player. Oh somebody died, well you 500 karma so it's okay!!! No, you killed someone so be prepared for the entire town to turn against you. Maybe actually create quests that benefit people, not just a run and collect quest to make a bomb out of soda pop. Show the effects of your job in the ending, of every single choice that you made in the game. Not just two different endings where you can be either apocalyptic saint or apocalyptic anti-christ.

I'm still wary of New Vegas, but if Bethesda kind of backs up and lets Obsidian take the wheel than maybe some of the old can meet the new. However, I know that Bethesda won't do this so I'm still scared.

Hope you guys enjoyed the post, I just felt the need to express concern for the game. Any criticism or praise will be welcome below : )
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PiP
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:46 am Reply with quoteBack to top

hello R2D2
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Manoil
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:58 am Reply with quoteBack to top

BEEP BOMP BEEP BOMP
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entertainer
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:47 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

FsEtNrDaEtR92 wrote:
At the time, I owned Oblivion and was convinced it was the greatest RPG ever


rofl what a refined gentlemen with swell features
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Stainless
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:52 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Fallout 3 was a pretty shallow experience all round, and you're probably right to be concerned about how much overseer control that Bethsoft have over the games development. The other big factor against Obsidion is the time factor. They have a window of 12months to do this product in. Bethsoft might love you paying for their alpha builds of their games, and clearly think everyone else does too. And since it seems to have not really deterred the mass populace from shelling out money for it, they'll expect this to do the same.

I don't see a new generation of gamers being exposed to a more cerebrial Fallout though. I see ADD kiddies potentially being alienated by the idea, and at the off chance that it does fantastically well, Bethsoft will still get the accolades for it.
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VasikkA
No more Tuna
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:00 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Obsidian's track record isn't that convincing even though some of them have worked on Fallout at Black Isle. I don't expect Fallout New Vegas to differ much from Fallout 3; it'll probably be buggier and rushed to release.

You'd be better off having another go at Fallout; the 150 day limit is not really a problem unless you decide to wander aimlessly in the wasteland. The game world is somewhat smaller than in Fallout 2, but the game really set the tone for the whole series so you should definitely check it out.
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Stainless
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:03 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Despite their shitty track record, they do manage to make interesting characters into their games, at least that's what I've found. I think even as simple as actually having characters that are even interesting would be a huge step up from what we have to put up with now.

But being buggy and running on a rat-shit engine... well yeah, that's a given.
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jetbaby
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

FsEtNrDaEtR92 wrote:
However, with the announcement of Obsidian (the current house for previous Black Isle/Interplay employees) as the developer, I have hope. However, how much control Bethesda has on the project could completely affect the game.


The good ones were at Troika.

Quote:
I downloaded the original Fallout (via torrent because I'm cheap) and found it a mediocre experience, especially because I couldn't get the patch to work that removes the 100 day limit (or however many days it was). I uninstalled Fallout and waited awhile until trying the second one, which does not have the same day limit. My entire outlook on gaming changed after that I finished it.


Your loss. Fallout was far and above a superior game.

Quote:
Playing Fallout 2 revealed to me my own ignorance about gaming. Without a guide, I could not even make it slightly far into Fallout 2, not understanding the way the game is meant to be played as compared to current RPG's. I learned the quests are there to be done, not as an option to leave behind because you've already killed 200 rats. You helped people not just because of the experience or the rewards reaped, but because the simple helpful act actually made a difference in the world. Sure, reclaiming a teddy bear is not exactly glamorous, but you actually got a good feeling that you made some kid stuck in a sucky world's life better for just 1 minute.

The real surprise came whenever I returned to the village at the beginning of the game to find out that everyone had been killed, and I already had the G.E.C.K.!!! The game didn't wait for me, it didn't sit in some kind of time-warp people to await my messiac return with salvation. The game killed off characters because I took too long to save them. This experience made me realize the simplicity in modern RPG's. While you get choices, there are plot events that are completely unavoidable. In Fallout, there were no boundaries other than life and death.


So how was this cool but having a time limit (which is all but impossible to hit unless you really, really dick around) a gamebreaking addition to the original?

Quote:
et all


Meh.
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entertainer
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

http://www.youtube.com/user/FsEtNrDaEtR92

great new member

respect
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Rosh
Desert Strider
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Joined: 18 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:12 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

It takes balls to be this stupid and post here.

FsEtNrDaEtR92 wrote:

I had not heard of the Fallout franchise until the announcement of Fallout 3. At the time, I owned Oblivion and was convinced it was the greatest RPG ever (ignorance if I've ever known it, but we all must learn some time)


By all means, don't let us stop you continuing to learn. In fact, we encourage it. A pity you didn't learn enough before posting this garbage.

Quote:

Having no clue about the direction of the franchise, I got on Wikipedia and began reading about this franchise I had never heard of (I was born in 92', so I was a little young to be playing Fallout).


You still are.

Quote:

Now, onto New Las Vegas. Bethesda has brought in a third-party developer to create this game that, as I said before, has previous employees that created the original Fallouts.


Feargus "SLAM DUNK!" Urquhart and Chris "New Reno" Avellone aren't particularly inspiring remnants of the design team. There might be a few more at Obsidian, but it really doesn't matter because Obsidian has been sucking too hard on the BioWare tit lately.

Quote:

This got my hopes up.


And made your IQ fall.

Quote:

I knew that the FP view was probably here to stay, and that the overall feel would be predominantly FO3ish. The hope for me lies in the possible creation of depth, a chance for players of this generation to experience the reality of Fallout: the world is not waiting for you to fix it. It will continue to die and grow.


1 year RPG development time = mod work.

Quote:

As for how Obsidian can do this is beyond me.


And beyond Obsidian as well. Being a bit wiser about the game industry, I know of Obsidian's failures. 5 years on Stonekeep 2, a couple on TORN, multiple false starts on Fallout 3 when they were called BIS, Descent to Undermountain, Lionheart, the list goes on. The only two real notable titles from them were from before they were known as Obsidian, and those titles were damn near ten years ago. Everything else remotely promising from that studio has been canceled as they suck up publisher money.

Quote:

With the current demand for NPC's, talking-heads will seem like a step backwards to some.


What the fuck?! Fallout 3 had "talking heads" but they were shitty compared to the original. Vampire: Bloodlines also had talking heads, done well, that helped bring the NPCs to life. What's the fucking point of having dialog with full VO with minimal facial detail?

Quote:

But at least NPC's can have some depth and dialogue to them, to the point where what comes out of their mouth is actually important. If Black Isle didn't hook you in with drama, humor, or other weird sayings, then the character was probably trying to kill you. What's the point of having these dead characters walking around that only say the same things?


Apparently, you also need to play a few of Obsidian's recent games and purchase that clue as well. Hint: They suck.

Quote:

I'd like to see actual consequences to the choices you make as a player. Oh somebody died, well you 500 karma so it's okay!!! No, you killed someone so be prepared for the entire town to turn against you.


See: Gothic 1 and 2.

Quote:

Maybe actually create quests that benefit people, not just a run and collect quest to make a bomb out of soda pop. Show the effects of your job in the ending, of every single choice that you made in the game. Not just two different endings where you can be either apocalyptic saint or apocalyptic anti-christ.


Whoa, that would require Obsidian to do something other than clone BioWare, and poorly at that. I wonder how BioWare is feeling now that Obsidian jumped into Bethesda's bed.

Quote:

I'm still wary of New Vegas, but if Bethesda kind of backs up and lets Obsidian take the wheel than maybe some of the old can meet the new. However, I know that Bethesda won't do this so I'm still scared.


Obsidian still doesn't have the people who set the design direction, setting details, art direction, and more, so you're still stupid.

Quote:

Hope you guys enjoyed the post, I just felt the need to express concern for the game. Any criticism or praise will be welcome below : )


Thanks for the laugh. Now go back to Guitar Zero and forget about speaking in regards to this genre until you've played a few more decent games in it. The 80s and 90s birthed several amazing titles that should be staple for understanding this genre.

A pity they also birthed YOU.
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FsEtNrDaEtR92
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:44 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Okay, my bad for having a low IQ. Maybe I thought that I would be accepted as a newcomer to the Fallout franchise. I had every intention of finishing the first game I just couldn't get the patch installed for some ungodly reason. As for the dicking around part it's potentially due to the fact that I had only played modern RPG's and didn't really understand how to play a game that literally gives you no direction as to where to go. I found playing the Fallout games a great experience, so when I try to share this experience I end up looking like an idiot? Maybe the reason why people wish so much death on the Fallout community because any time a person shows a bit of ignorance you do nothing but blatantly insult them. I was hoping that maybe I would get some mature responses but it seems that I was insulted by people still clinging on to the remnants of a game that is never coming back. You're correct I've never seen Obsidian's work but I have read the mediocre reviews they have received. You people should be appreciative, at least I took the time to play the game and realize how amazing it is instead of condemning it as ancient like those who enjoyed Fallout 3. I'm not saying that I'm not ignorant to the original Fallouts, of course I am. I was just sharing a great experience and expressing a genuine concern for the series future instead of just lingering in the past. I understand the series can never revert to the masterpiece it once was, but maybe with a taste and good reviews the series can continue in a good direction. But as I said before, I doubt it with Beth at the helm.
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FsEtNrDaEtR92
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:51 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks for the laugh. Now go back to Guitar Zero and forget about speaking in regards to this genre until you've played a few more decent games in it. The 80s and 90s birthed several amazing titles that should be staple for understanding this genre.

A pity they also birthed YOU.[/quote]


As for the Guitar Hero videos, I was much younger then and was very ignorant. I don't play the game anymore as my skills in real guitar have developed beyond it. As for the great games in the 80's and 90's, how about giving me some suggestions to try instead of insulting my own existence? I don't care about graphics and would love to better understand the greatness of older PC games. How about producing some actual advice instead of just insulting me?
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Manoil
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:18 pm Reply with quoteBack to top



BWALLS, ROSH.
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Rosh
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:41 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Oh FFS, learn how to use paragraphs or learn how to quote.

FsEtNrDaEtR92 wrote:
Okay, my bad for having a low IQ.


Sorry, had to point out the obvious.

Quote:
Maybe I thought that I would be accepted as a newcomer to the Fallout franchise.


Not when you keep making wholly inaccurate and ignorant remarks.

Obsidian had several attempts at Fallout 3, and they've blown them each time. One of the later ones was where Feargus brought some of his buddies from Reflexive around to make Lionheart.

Quote:

I had every intention of finishing the first game I just couldn't get the patch installed for some ungodly reason.


The reason usually comes with some kind of error message.

Quote:
As for the dicking around part it's potentially due to the fact that I had only played modern RPG's and didn't really understand how to play a game that literally gives you no direction as to where to go.


Um...yes, it does. That is part of the beauty of Fallout - discovering the land. If you talk with the NPCs, they will tell you of other locations in the wasteland. I'm starting to notice a trend where you want everything to be given to you without much personal effort.

If I have to be a teacher in such circumstances, I'll treat you as if you're wearing the dunce cap.

Quote:

I found playing the Fallout games a great experience, so when I try to share this experience I end up looking like an idiot?


It wasn't that part, it was the wholesale idiocy around Obsidian that was the real laugh.

Quote:

Maybe the reason why people wish so much death on the Fallout community because any time a person shows a bit of ignorance you do nothing but blatantly insult them.


Because frankly, to post ignorance like that to people who have been dicked over for years with inferior products is insulting to read.

Quote:

I was hoping that maybe I would get some mature responses but it seems that I was insulted by people still clinging on to the remnants of a game that is never coming back.


The more I read this shit, the more it sounds like just another troll attempt.

Quote:

You're correct I've never seen Obsidian's work but I have read the mediocre reviews they have received.


Then how the hell could they even come close to the original quality of the original if they aren't going to bother trying anymore, and don't have the same people anymore?

Quote:

You people should be appreciative, at least I took the time to play the game and realize how amazing it is instead of condemning it as ancient like those who enjoyed Fallout 3.


Why should we be appreciative? Oh, wow! Our life is complete now that a TES fan posted! Someone call Pete Hines and tell him we love him! Fallout has a bright füchar!

Quote:

I'm not saying that I'm not ignorant to the original Fallouts, of course I am. I was just sharing a great experience and expressing a genuine concern for the series future instead of just lingering in the past.


Are your rose-tinted shades as thick as you? Really, you blather on with derogatory remarks about design concepts you know little to nothing about, in particular Talking Heads, and then whine when you're laughed at.

Quote:

I understand the series can never revert to the masterpiece it once was, but maybe with a taste and good reviews the series can continue in a good direction. But as I said before, I doubt it with Beth at the helm.


It isn't much better with Obsidian at the helm. So that kind of defeats the purpose of this thread, to be bluntly honest.

If it was hugs and puppies you were looking for, I think I have some in the van with "FREE PUPPIES!" spray-painted on the side. Just look outside for it.

Quote:

As for the Guitar Hero videos, I was much younger then and was very ignorant.


With the same brilliant acid caps handle, I doubt that has changed much.

Quote:

I don't play the game anymore as my skills in real guitar have developed beyond it. As for the great games in the 80's and 90's, how about giving me some suggestions to try instead of insulting my own existence?


Here's a thought - research them. The entire purpose of schooling (aside from giving you some background information) is to teach you how to research and discover things for yourself.

Quote:

I don't care about graphics and would love to better understand the greatness of older PC games. How about producing some actual advice instead of just insulting me?


I'm just having a bit of fun. If you think folks are going to spoon feed you all the answers, in particular the history of why Obsidian is now called Obsidian, then you are mistaken. The history of the Fallout franchise, and those who worked on it, has been documented a number of times over already. You just need to look for them, to save people from explaining it to the people who can't learn on their own.

Instead of posting all of this, your time could have instead been spent looking up those games, and learning more about the history of Fallout to understand why we are this way. Such as when Bethesda made good games, including TES. Daggerfall is one such example, from Bethesda's own history. The others are fairly simple to figure out. Look for a timeline or three of the history of CRPGs and take note of which they mention (stay away from the FFVII kiddy articles), and start from there. Then you might dig up a few on your own because you knew where to start looking.

Think for yourself, don't expect others (or the games) to do it for you. That is the FIRST and MOST IMPORTANT lesson with older games, or you WILL be completely lost. You're on the first step with, the next is to grow a thicker skin (especially around here, did you even bother to read the forums first or just beeline to this one to share your OMFGEXPERIENCE?!), and then discover more of the older games. Then you'll probably be as jaded and bitter as us.

In short: Welcome, but please don't set yourself up so easily like this. (You DID invite it...but I had to give you a typical Rosh "Welcome" to see if you could handle that much, and if so, I don't think you'll have much to worry about. The usual attitude around Fallout fan sites tends to vary between "Irate" and "Kills Babies".) You did show quite a bit of beginning understanding of what games were like when developers cared about quality, but some of the rest is just silly as hell or wildly ignorant. Work on that, check out the older titles you can find, and then see why most of us consider modern gaming to be procedural crap.

And then you'll not be able to play many modern games anymore. icon_mrhappy

Manoil: Buckethead, good taste. Now try something a bit more fun than Jordan. icon_wink
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PiP
Last, Best Hope of Humanity
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:56 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

did someone just get Roshed? icon_flamed

Anyhow kid, pics of your sister's tits or GTFO gnasher
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Manoil
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:54 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Legit. Though Serj always seemed like some kind of sentient goat-man to me.
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S4ur0n27
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:09 am Reply with quoteBack to top

PiP wrote:
did someone just get Roshed? icon_flamed

Anyhow kid, pics of your sister's tits or GTFO gnasher


qfe :freddymercury:
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jetbaby
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:22 am Reply with quoteBack to top

FsEtNrDaEtR92 wrote:
I found playing the Fallout games a great experience, so when I try to share this experience I end up looking like an idiot?


You also said Fallout sucked and you couldn't play it because the time limit was stupid. I don't get how you can miss the depth and breadth of the game if you managed to hit it. I only ever hit it once and that was my first time through because I was too busy wandering the wasteland in the world I had stumbled into instead of trying to accomplish my actual goal.

That aside, I love you, Rosh. DAC just isn't the same without some of the old faces.
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FsEtNrDaEtR92
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:29 am Reply with quoteBack to top

jetbaby wrote:
FsEtNrDaEtR92 wrote:
I found playing the Fallout games a great experience, so when I try to share this experience I end up looking like an idiot?


You also said Fallout sucked and you couldn't play it because the time limit was stupid. I don't get how you can miss the depth and breadth of the game if you managed to hit it. I only ever hit it once and that was my first time through because I was too busy wandering the wasteland in the world I had stumbled into instead of trying to accomplish my actual goal.

That aside, I love you, Rosh. DAC just isn't the same without some of the old faces.


I never said Fallout sucked, I just hit the time limit on my first run through, as did you, and didn't feel like starting a new game. At the time I didn't really understand how Fallout as a game worked but then I learned (somewhat). I don't think the time limit is stupid, if anything it makes the game a more believable and rich experience.
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VasikkA
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:43 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Rosh is harassing minors again? aiee
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