Bethesda is cool

[Jonesing4FO3]

I know everyone is worked up about FO3 and how it's going to totally suck and they'll never do it right or whatever. Here's a thought...

What if FO3 was everything you guys don't want? What if it WAS Oblivion with a post-apoc finish? I would totally dig it.

Before I go down in flames, here's what I'm thinking... Remember about 3/4 or teh way through Half-Life 2 when you got to ride the buggy up the coastline and stop at all the houses and go through all the creepy tunnels, etc? Remember how friggin cool Oblivion was until you actually started doing the main storyline? Take those, jumble them together, and sprinkle a good dose of Fallout-y goodness on top. That's exactly what I want.

Oblivion was a great game if you never bothered to care about the main storyline. The quests were awesome and the character development was superb. Then you had to go and do those damned oblivion gates.

So imagine a fallout world, that you can interact with like oblivion with the AIs and the physics and the good writing. Throw in some good Half-Life 2 style attention to detail like the materials the buggy was made of and the makeshift crossbow and the little stories at each house like the burned bodies out front and the booby traps. Now imagine that the end resolution of the game isn't some lame multiple-dimensional portal bullshit and is actually hard to do, like planning a world-wide attack and rebellion against an established gang leader/warlord. Imagine the economics are effected by your actions so that you can firebomb the town that makes liquor and sell your stockpile for a whole bunch. Imagine the makeshift cars and vehicles and how fun they'd be to drive in FPV rather than TPV.

Now, imagine how lame the same old crap would be for FO3 if it was basically just the second game with better graphics.

I'm looking forward to them doing it right, and I think they will.

[ExtremeDrinker]

I don't really care, actually. I've not purchased a computer game in many many years so if it fails it's no loss to me.

[Jesus Christ]

Please don't post here anymore Jonesing.

[Jonesing4FO3]

I hear you on that one, Ryno.

Here's what I wonder... If everyone in the community agrees on what they want, then why not make it as a big TC for fallout 1 or 2? Art for a 2D iso game is super simple with max and poser and the editor seems fairly easy to use...

[Jesus Christ]

What did I just say ASSHOLE!?

[Jonesing4FO3]

It seems everyone is so full of hate. This is what happens when people are given any info at all. They should have never even announced a new Fallout, that way you guys would be 3/4 of the way toward making a mp coop 3d port instead of ranting over something that no one knows ANYTHING about.

It's like saying your pissed about the 2054 presidential elections. "Here is absolute proof that they are going to suck. Because I said so and I rawk. The end."

Rather than bathe in your own teenage angst you should do something about it.

[Dinosaur!]

Imagine the economics are effected by your actions

ok!

[4too]

Running On Half Empty





The anger and frustration in many game forums has more to do with the low quality standards and high market hype in this Nex Gen era of game entertainment.

So far, BethSoft has proven that they are a better game marketer than a total game experience designer.

That's fine for making money, and not so fine for the game consumer.


Jonesing4FO3:

... Oblivion was a great game if ....
... So imagine a fallout world, that you can interact with like oblivion ...
... Now, imagine how lame the same old crap would be for FO3 if ...

You say the overall quality of Oblivion was conditional, ""if"", yet you want to repeat the same quality of design in a post apocalyptic setting. Perhaps the dev's will get lucky and burn a complete game to disk.

You are welcome to settle for half a game in Oblivion. Others are not willing to invest time and money in half a loaf.


You may not like the game play, the truth and consequences of a traditional RPG format, but you are more than content with a flawed action r-PG like Oblivion.

You gush like a pre teen about how great Oblivion WAS, and how you really, really want to replay Oblivion in Fallout clothes. Do all the kewl stuff like Oblivion.

So why aren't you blissfully playing Oblivion?

A little restive and petulant because you can't repeat that Oblivion peak experience?

What is so WRONG with Oblivion that you can not replay and replay and get the same high?

Many here have replayed the FO's many times.

What can be lacking in such play-ah? Can't be YOU! Perhaps the game is lacking?

You state you want to play Oblivion dressed up like FO, but you don't want "the old crap" of RPG's.

So why aren't you blissfully playing Oblivion?

Bored?

It is sad that you can't explore the "old crap" like the FO's while waiting for the BethSoft FO3 made just like Oblivion.

Is Oblivion, and your gaming life, that shallow that trolling the web for attention, as a self annointed BethSoft missionary, is the closest you can come to self fulfilling entertainment?

You might get a free set of horse armor if you sign up for Bethsoft native guerilla marketing.

If you are not larping as an agent provocateur for BethSoft or a third party in league with BethSoft, why risk rejection, take your opinions to those who agree with you.

Bolster your self esteem with comrades that support your world view.

Why risk a life time of low self esteem and high priced mood altering psychological pharmaceuticals?

Band with those in agreement with your BOLD lust to replay Oblivion. Nag and bully for the FO made in your image, on the BethSoft forums. The mods there will support YOU. They LOVE YOU, and only YOU.

Here's the rush ... IT'S ALL ABOUT YOU!

Yes indeed.

You brilliant son of the morning ...

Why?

Be content, be at rest, be at peace, know truly that Bethesda Software has declared that YOU are their target demographic.

You have been GROOMED to buy any BS entertainment,

whether it be half full,


or half empty.




4too

[Wolfman Walt]

I guess I'll handle this

What if FO3 was everything you guys don't want? What if it WAS Oblivion with a post-apoc finish? I would totally dig it.

Good for you - you'll find you're pretty alone here. Oblivion was an action shit fest made out to look like an RPG because apperently there's some conception that actual RPG's don't sell well. Hell, there's some sort of misconception that pseudo-rpgs don't sell well either, so we get this shit which everyone says is an rpg, but isn't. I don't want that for Fallout and there's no reason for Bethsoft to use the Fallout license for that when an original license would have been better for all intents and purposes in my mind.

Before I go down in flames

Too late.

Remember how in half life, all those tunnels and stuffs were fairly close together and were easy to get to? Remember how in fallout that on the world map, stuff was hundreds of miles away. You put in too many cities in the same area and you're gonna change the feel that you're in a post apoclyptic area into something completely different. Even if you fill it all with just tunnels - what's the point? What logic would it make anyways? I can understand the occasional underground facility, but if every tunnel has a virtual base under it, what sense would that make?

And for reference, I don't remember how "friggin cool" Oblivion was, ever. Possibily because it wasn't. You also kinda defeated your own argument with "until you actually started doing the main storyline." I don't want a game that stops being fun just because you start doing stuff outside of the sandbox.

For reference - remember when in fallout and fallout 2 where you were walking on foot for 200 real scale miles to get to the next town? Me neither - cause that was on a global map as it'd be too damn boring to do otherwise.

Oblivion was a great game

No it wasn't - It was a very mediocre experience that only rose above morrowind because it had better graphics and appealed more to the action crowd. The quests were boring as hell generally speaking and they were all solved in the same manor.

What fucking character development? Skills ment almost nothing in that game, your character never gained any real traits, and what was the point in "developing" your character if everything else was scaled to your level?

So imagine a fallout world, that you can interact with like oblivion with the AIs and the physics and the good writing.

Newsflash - Oblivion had a HORRIBLE AI. Radiant AI was supposed to be some sort of awesome advancement in video games and how NPCs reacted and went about their "daily lives." Too bad it was complete and utter shit. Interact with things like in Oblivion? You mean like where I go into a mini game to convince someone? Or how about the parts where my options for talking to people are "Yea, I'll do it" and "No I won't." Real interactive - I think I'd get more interactivity from punching my neighbor in the face.

Now, imagine how lame the same old crap would be for FO3 if it was basically just the second game with better graphics.

That same old "lame crap" is more fun then any game I've played within the decade and still has a rabid fanbase, despite not receiving any sort of sequel (or spin-off that didn't suck ass) for ALMOST 10 years.

I'm looking forward to them doing it right, and I think they will.

If by right you mean "Making it a piece of shit," I concur.

[DarkUnderlord]

What if FO3 was everything you guys don't want? What if it WAS Oblivion with a post-apoc finish? I would totally dig it.

So why bother calling it Fallout 3 then?

Imagine the makeshift cars and vehicles and how fun they'd be to drive in FPV rather than TPV.

Bethesda can't even do horses properly. What makes you think they'd be able to manage cars? As for tunnels, Bethesda don't do tunnels. They do doors. You'll be wandering around the Wasteland and every five minutes stumble into a door in the middle of the desert which would take you down and you'd get to kill some radscorpions and move on.

Now, imagine how lame the same old crap would be for FO3 if it was basically just the second game with better graphics.

You mean Fallout 2 with better graphics as opposed to Oblivion with better graphics? I'd take Fallout 2 over Oblivion any day of the week. Unlike Oblivion, I didn't get bored with Fallout 2 after only one week of running mindlessly around killing stuff.

It seems everyone is so full of hate. This is what happens when people are given any info at all. They should have never even announced a new Fallout, that way you guys would be 3/4 of the way toward making a mp coop 3d port instead of ranting over something that no one knows ANYTHING about.

As opposed to yourself? Really, how do you know Bethesda aren't making an isometric, turn-based combat game with decent dialogue? A "Fallout 2 with better graphics" if you will?

You know how? The same way we know that whatever Bethesda is going to do, it's not going to be pretty.

Rather than bathe in your own teenage angst you should do something about it.

Some of us are, dipshit. That shit also takes time. Something a bunch of unpaid people don't have in huge amounts. More to the point, why should we? Shouldn't Fallout 3 be everything Fallout 2 was only a bit better, as opposed to being some kind of Battlefield: Wasteland Edition?

[SearchingForFriends]

Jonesing stop posting antipropaganda. we are the all seeing eye, not even a eyelid can´t stop us now, bwahaha.

funny.

[Dreadnought]

[Koki]

They should have never even announced a new Fallout, that way you guys would be 3/4 of the way toward making a mp coop 3d port

Do we look like a gaming company to you? Can we code? Can we do art? Few of us can. And guess what? They can't spent half day doing it because it's not their job. So we can do modding at best. This is where fun starts. Do you know why 95% of mods fail? Because making them is not job. You don't have time, sometimes you don't have motivation either. Even if you do, your sound effects guy will suddenly get married or something and he will just say "Sorry, I can't do it anymore". That's how fanmade projects fail: Done in meantime, no motivation, no management, no deadlines to keep people on their toes, everyone is living on a different continent so you can't really control them...

Besides, go check FMF. Where are they after god knows how many years? Ask DU how many times the staff changed too.

It's like saying your pissed about the 2054 presidential elections. "Here is absolute proof that they are going to suck. Because I said so and I rawk. The end."

No, it's like Lada suddenly saying "We're making an F1 car". The probability of failure is 95% because they never fucking builded a sports car before. I didn't hear anyone from old Fallout(F1) staff got hired at Bethseda(Lada), either.

Rather than bathe in your own teenage angst you should do something about it.

Do fucking WHAT? I already told you making "our own Fallout" is absurdly childish scenario. So what can we do, fucko? I'm waiting quivering in anticipation for your response.

[Jonesing4FO3]

On the contrary, the reasons you can play older games over and over usually has nothing to do with the actual quality of the game. Newer platform games may do everything that supoer mario bros did and more, but does that make them better games? No, because your first experience with a solid platformer was more than likely mario bros.

Fallout was, IMHO, one of the first solid CRPGs. It's going to take a whole hell of a lot to live up to that standard again. It probably won't happen.

Put yourself in the shoes of a developer. Ask yourself the question, "What should I do to make Fallout 3 great?" Obviously, I can't rely on the fans at DaC or NMA, because none of them agree on anything and they are so full of angst that nothing would ever get done.

So, what made the first Fallout great? The inventiveness within the post apoc atmosphere. The style with which it was done. The fairly intuitive RP system and the really solid TB/RT mix with which combat was handled. The attitude of the world.

How do you deliver on something that inventive again?

As a developer that's worked on several licence-related titles like LotR and Star Wars, I can say with absolute confidence; "You will never be able to please 100% of the people 100% of the time." And as far as forums like these go, they only prove that. They do absolutely nothing to help anything.

So here's the situation. I'll break it down for you.

Those devs at BethSoft have the money, the resources, the talent, and the equipment to make another Fallout franchise game. You do not.

When they read these forums, and you can bet that they do, they are searching for something useful. When every other post is about how much they suck, something which has no basis, absolutely none, they get discouraged. Nothing constructive is going on here.

People like you guys can't ever see the big picture. A good excercise for you guys would be to design Fallout 3. Getting something as simple as a few pages of features or ideas that most of you could agree on would be an excercise in futility I think.

It's not that you're wrong. It's just that everything you say is subjective. "Oblivion was a horrible game. They can't even get horses right. Everyone at BethSoft is a tool." The sales tell a completely different story. And currently, sales is the only meter by which to judge the overall acceptance of a game.

Want to do something constructive? Start a list somewhere and take votes on ideas as to what percentage of the forum population here agrees with them.

The reason it's so hard isn't because everyone here is an angry asshole, it's because we all have different ideas on what Fallout 3 should be.

And to your points, 4too, your anger and resentment is well founded. I feel it too. How can we change it?

How can we make games in a corporate-funded environment? I've been trying to be creative for years, and most of it gets stamped out because Joe Wal-Mart won't identify with it. So what do we do? Fund our own companies? I'm not working seven day weeks and 14-hour days anymore, I have a family.

So lets assume that Bethsoft does everything horribly. Instead of rolling hills, there are dunes, and instead of vehicles, they just use mutated horses or something gay. It doesn't change a damn thing.

The only thing it does show is that they never got any good ideas from this forum, and if I was a developer, I wouldn't set foot in here. It's a fucking snake pit of random hate, and I'd be reading all day to find one good idea. I'd be better off ignoring all this crap and coming up with stuff on my own, no matter how crappy it was.

[Cimmerian Nights]

Bethesda: Doing for cRPGs what McDonald's did for beef!

[Jesus Christ]

[Koki]

On the contrary, the reasons you can play older games over and over usually has nothing to do with the actual quality of the game. Newer platform games may do everything that supoer mario bros did and more, but does that make them better games? No, because your first experience with a solid platformer was more than likely mario bros.

What the fuck is MARIO doing there of all things? It was shit. Not to mention that the argument is bullshit. There are time limits to nostalgia. And nostalgia doesn't work on anyone with half a brain.

Fallout was, IMHO, one of the first solid CRPGs. It's going to take a whole hell of a lot to live up to that standard again. It probably won't happen.

So Fallout was great because it was first cRPG we played? So Oblivion is magically better, we just can't see it? Sould I just list all Fallout's features and lack of thereof in Oblivion then?

Put yourself in the shoes of a developer. Ask yourself the question, "What should I do to make Fallout 3 great?" Obviously, I can't rely on the fans at DaC or NMA, because none of them agree on anything and they are so full of angst that nothing would ever get done.

Then stop posting finally.

As a developer that's worked on several licence-related titles like LotR and Star Wars

Here we go

I can say with absolute confidence; "You will never be able to please 100% of the people 100% of the time."

Too bad you're such amazing developer that you forgot one thing: You should not make games to fucking satisfy people. You should be making games because you fucking like making games. Do you think creators of Fallout made a survey which proved that 70's post-apo style will satisfy the most people? No, they decided on it because it sounded cool idea to them.

And as far as forums like these go, they only prove that. They do absolutely nothing to help anything.

It's not a fucking "Making a game in weekend". It's a forum for people who enjoy the game. We're fucking audience. What the fuck do you want us to do? Do you see audience in a cinema doing something creative about the movie?

Those devs at BethSoft have the money, the resources

Undoubtly, after the Camel patch to Oblivion, the checks will just start rolling in.

the talent

Bullshit. It's simple. They never fucking made a game which was technically even remotely similiar to Fallout. Do you see Valve making jRPGs? Do they have money, the resources, the equipment? Yes. Do they have people with experience in making jRPGs? I think the answer is obvious.

You do not.

We also can't build a space shuttle.*

When they read these forums, and you can bet that they do

As you did in your glorious developer days eh? Well guess what, developers have PR guys responsible for such shit. That's one. Two, they wouldn't be reading DAC, but Elder Scrolls boards. Or NMA. DAC was always in NMA's shadow, not that it bothers me, as all blame for everything goes to NMA this way, har har har. Anyway, you're delusional. They don't need our ideas, because they have their own, and because we're not their target audience.

When every other post is about how much they suck, something which has no basis, absolutely none

Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V: They never fucking made a game which was technically even remotely similiar to Fallout. Do you see Valve making jRPGs? Do they have money, the resources, the equipment? Yes. Do they have people with experience in making jRPGs? I think the answer is obvious.

they get discouraged

Well no shit sherlock, in case you haven't noticed, we don't like that Beth got the license. We don't like they're not telling us anything. We don't like the games they made, and we don't like how they hint at Fallout 3 being FPP and in real time. So use your amazing deduction powers and put 2 and 2 together. Maybe we WANT them to be discouraged. We're not fucking going to hold them by hand and whisper words of comfort, that's for sure.

Nothing constructive is going on here.

FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME, THIS IS A FAN-MADE BOARD BY FANS FOR FANS. WE ARE NOT DEVELOPERS. WE ACT JUST LIKE ANY OTHER GAMING BOARD OUT THERE, WE'RE JUST MORE JADED. DON'T MAKE SOME KIND OF DEVIL PROGRESS STOPPERS OR SHIT OUT OF US. FUCK, ROLL YOUR ASS OUT OF THIS THREAD AND BROWSE THIS VERY FUCKING SUBFORUM MAYBE. THERE IS A THREAD "NAME ONE FEATURE YOU'D LIKE IN FALLOUT 3". THERE IS QUESTS IDEAS THREAD. THERE IS TRAITS AND PERKS THREAD. EVERY THIRD THREAD IS ABOUT FUCKING IDEAS WE HAVE FOR FALLOUT 3 YOU FUCKSTICK. This is the last time I'm bothering to respond to this retarded thought line of yours.

People like you guys can't ever see the big picture. A good excercise for you guys would be to design Fallout 3. Getting something as simple as a few pages of features or ideas that most of you could agree on would be an excercise in futility I think.

So would be trying to design that damn space shuttle.*

It's not that you're wrong. It's just that everything you say is subjective.

My gosh, call for Wattson, the Sherlock striked again! Everything all people say is subjective you card. Which includes you.

The sales tell a completely different story.

Oblivion sold copies: 1,7 million
Nintendogs sold copies: 7.7 million

And currently, sales is the only meter by which to judge the overall acceptance of a game.

Acceptance is not Quality.

How can we make games in a corporate-funded environment?

We can't.

So lets assume that Bethsoft does everything horribly. Instead of rolling hills, there are dunes, and instead of vehicles, they just use mutated horses or something gay. It doesn't change a damn thing.

Yeah, who cares if the game is good or not?

The only thing it does show is that they never got any good ideas from this forum

Ok, I promised I wouldn't say a word more on this subject, but I have to. I have to say you are one retarded fucker. So it's OUR fault that Beth got popular license to make money? It's OUR fault that they will rape it so it will get Teen rating? It's OUR fault that they will make it fast action slugfest because they want their target audience as wide as possible? For the love of all that is holy, when I was going to 4chan's /v/ideogames board I meet with some serious fucktards, but you really take the cake. You are just the biggest moron I have seen on the Internet.


* - Actually, I suspect Blargh could possibly have the ability to achieve such a task. Cheers

[Jonesing4FO3]

Well. You win. I'll never visit these forums again.

It's obvious that you don't have the balls to make something better, only the cowardice to complain when things don't go your way.

It's also obvious that you don't wish to engage in civil discourse. WTF does Nintendogs have to do with anything?

BethSoft has no reason to listen to you. You're not giving them one. You are in a sad state, making a god out of a game of the past, unwilling to be open or even attempt to contribute to a game of the future. That kind of attitude is completely useless and nihilistic.

So you're pissed. Ok. Want people to know you're pissed? Ok. Maybe you should take your narrow-mindedness on a forum more appropriate, like Jerry Springer.

What you guys seem to be telling me is that the purpose of these forums is to bitch and whine about something that's not going to change. Then I've made a mistake in joining. It's pointless to talk about such things.

[Nicolai]

Perhaps you could give the Codex a shot, word on the street is that they're a pretty open-minded bunch.

[Redeye]

Perhaps you could give the Codex a shot, word on the street is that they're a pretty open-minded bunch.

They loved my ideas about the importance of jumping-puzzles.

Gotta have those.