Nevermind

PaladinHeart · Post by **PaladinHeart** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:36 pm

Just ignore my posts here and move on.

jetbaby · Post by **jetbaby** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:56 pm

So what? Learn to live with shit AI. I did.

I want to control one character because, as it is a "role playing game," if you will, I wish to play a "role" in the world. I am that character. S/he or it is my avatar in this universe of insanity and chaos and large caliber weaponry. I know what s/he or it knows. I interact through him or her or it GOD DAMN IT THAT TAKES TOO MUCH EFFORT. Friends can tag along, but they aren't me, they're their own distinct persons with history I can learn and future I can unravel. I interact with them but they are not mine. They're just along for the ride.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:05 pm

Hear hear, jetbaby has it right.

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:15 pm

I thought the fact you couldn't control your party members added something to the FO games. The fact that you were sometimes so mad at them(Ian bursting his SMG on you) and sometimes so glad they were there(Dogmeat killing everyone, Ian finishing off an ennemy when you had 2 HP left, etc).

PaladinHeart · Post by **PaladinHeart** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:32 pm

My allies were always more of a nuisance than a help.

Yeah I'll admit Ian and Dogmeat were fine for the first game. They seemed more like cannon fodder that just happened to be kinda useful. I just didn't much care for those from the 2nd game.

I guess the main problem with them is it's like they expect you to provide them with all this ammunition that they go through like it grows on trees.

Not being able to control them wouldn't be so bad if Bethesda gives them better AI than what you see in Morrowind. The Fallout NPC party members have better AI than what those in Morrowind had. I can't recall how many times an NPC would run up to a monster and start hitting it with their bare fists, forcing me to have to stop what I'm doing and kill the monster just to keep their sorry tail alive. :-/

jetbaby · Post by **jetbaby** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:45 pm

If you don't like the NPCs, don't GET the NPCs. OMG, liek, duhZ.

PaladinHeart · Post by **PaladinHeart** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:54 pm

jetbaby wrote:If you don't like the NPCs, don't GET the NPCs. OMG, liek, duhZ.

That's a good idea actually. They could let you switch party member control on and off. That way everyone would be happy.

The default would be off of course. This way the fanatics wouldn't know about it until later.

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:56 pm

And if you want to control your NPCs play FOT, SS or any tactical game.

Stop trying to reinvent Fallout, for fuck's sake.

Blargh · Post by **Blargh** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:59 pm

PaladinHeart wrote::-/

The frustration you mention, the behaviour you lament, has seemingly lead to inconsistent roleplaying. Given to such stress, it would be suggested you leave such an unfortunate/fool to their (deserved, clearly) fate. Rather than leap to their salvation at the expense of <preferred place/time/activity>.

Consider it a duty to the gene pool, a campaign on behalf of belated social Darwinism.

Either that, or do as jetbaby and leave them at home.

Play the game, don't fight it. That way only treads to irritation and woe.

jetbaby · Post by **jetbaby** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:05 pm

There is something hugely important that I think you miss, Paladin. The acronym "NPC." Do you know what it stands for? N P C. Non-Player Character. Non player. That means not a player.

Also, again, I repeat the question in another thread, is english your second language or are you just slow? Your praise of my "idea" is praise of a non-existent idea. I said don't get them, not give a radio button for optional control.

PaladinHeart · Post by **PaladinHeart** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:15 pm

jetbaby wrote:Also, again, I repeat the question in another thread, is english your second language or are you just slow? Your praise of my "idea" is praise of a non-existent idea. I said don't get them, not give a radio button for optional control.

I was overextending your idea like you did my idea concerning Counterstrike.

atoga · Post by **atoga** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:56 pm

Y'know, PaladinHeart is sorta right. Sorta. Full-on control is stoopid though. Perhaps the player should be allowed to control their party members in some situations (possibly through use of a skill or a perk requiring some investment on the player's part).

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:00 pm

The only thing that I could see fit, would be if you were able to spend, say, 2 AP to yell at your NPC something like "Back off" or "Use your knife" while in combat.

PaladinHeart · Post by **PaladinHeart** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:46 pm

S4ur0n27 wrote:The only thing that I could see fit, would be if you were able to spend, say, 2 AP to yell at your NPC something like "Back off" or "Use your knife" while in combat.

That would be cool. Or maybe, "Just hit the rat with your fists you big dumb super mutant!!"

Of course it would be funny if, at that point, he turned around and used the minigun on you instead. Haha!

.... and then the rat kills him because he only had 1 life left.

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:51 pm

Yeah, adding a bit of actual character to the NPCs would be fun. Them having more initiative or attitude. Let's Ian decides he's the one who's gonna be the hero in that fucking story.

Once you arrive in the Hub, he discovers that he might be able to go on his own, so he leaves you to your fate, and you would later meet him in other towns, doing other missions, etc.

PaladinHeart · Post by **PaladinHeart** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:33 pm

It would also be interesting if the party members, at some point in the game, turn on you. I think I mentioned it in another post but it would be better if every time you played the game each party member has a given chance to turn on you at some point in the game when things are looking bad.

This would be very interesting and add a lot of replay value to the game.

I would say that a maximum number should be imposed to keep from having every NPC turn on you but that unknown factor should always be there.

Of course there should be a few that have no inclination to turn on you, depending on random personalities they can have.

Even better. Let's say they randomly leave to do their own thing. Next time you meet them.. they're better equipped and they either want to join you or they happen to want your stuff.

requiem_for_a_starfury · Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:06 pm

NPCs should have more stuff to do to deepen their character, but turning on the player should be restricted to certain circumstances not totally random. Why it should happen would have to be in keeping with the NPC's character, i.e you're travelling with a member of the NCR Rangers but you decide to join the slavers so they'll turn on you.

Things I'd like to see are NPCs up and leave either because you're taking too long to help them with their problem or because you've done their quests, solved their problems so after that why would they stay with you, going into more and more danger? Also they shouldn't be just pack mules, if you ask them to carry something there should be a good chance they'll take a liking to it and won't give it back or if they have a better armour/weapon than you when you first meet, if you try and swap they'll get the hump and then attack you (though it would be fun to convince dumb NPCs that your leather jacket would protect them better than their metal armour).

Talking to NPCs during combat, or at least a few hotkey commands would be good, but having direct control over them has no place in a role playing game and should be saved for tactical combat games.

PaladinHeart · Post by **PaladinHeart** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:21 pm

The concept of tricking a dumb NPC out of their weapon sounds appealing. Yes I agree that a "reasonble" intelligence should be in place for the NPC. They shouldn't mind helping you carry loot in the hopes that they'll get their fair share of the caps when it's sold. Although they should complain if you don't either let them have some caps or if you don't resupply their ammo and such. Certain NPC's should certainly consider robbing the PC if they think they could get the upper hand at some point. But of course it should depend on their personality and if the PC is a tough guy or good at talking then they should have a reasonable chance of keeping rowdy NPC's in line.

More honorable or loyal NPC's should be easier to deal with. Such as Dogmeat for example. A loyal pet wouldn't turn on their master like two-faced Ian.

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:22 pm

Exact.

Give the NPCs character.

PaladinHeart · Post by **PaladinHeart** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:28 pm

It'd be nice to have some generic NPC's that you can hire that the game gives one of five random personalities. That would be fun. Plus if they die then you could easily replace them. Though their experience would be wasted.

You could pay more though and get NPC's closer to your level that start with better equipment.