Nevermind

[PaladinHeart]

Forget I mentioned it.

I'll try to remember to keep my opinions to myself in the future.

[S4ur0n27]

Heretic.

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

I've been noticing everyone seems to want an isometric game. What's the last decent isometric RPG game you've played?

Doesn't matter, just because there have been bad isometric games doesn't mean they should change the format.

I don't think first person would be so bad if they do it right. I have to wonder if a lot of the people who want it isometric just haven't upgraded their computers in a while?... Just a though. xD

I bought a new pc only a few months ago and still would prefer it isometric with a fixed camera, because that's what I like to play.

I've been thinking about the first person bit and guns and accuracy and how it could go over. You know how badly your accuracy is in Half Life: Counterstrike when you use burst fire? Well the less skill you have with the weapon in Fallout 3 the bigger that round aiming circle is (and thus the wider range your bullet has of possibly going). A percentage chance of hitting could even show up in the circle.

That might work for a FPS with RPG elements but any RPG should rely on my character's skills not mine, otherwise I wouldn't really be roleplaying just gaming. This is one of the things about VTMB that I didn't like, so much combat and in the end no matter what type of character I made the combat came down to my reactions which kind of missed the point of it being a RPG.

Probably a waste of time but I just wanted to let everyone see how this could be a good and decent first person RPG.

As it has been stated over and over again, first person views and turn based combat don't mix and to remove TB would be to gut the SPECIAL system which is as much a part of the Fallout experience as Deathclaws or Super Mutants. While it's possible to have a FPRPG as you described it wouldn't be a Fallout game. Fallout was as much a sim of PnP RPGing as you could get. The perspective, combat system and SPECIAL, the whole PnP feeling goes toward a whole chunk of what makes Fallout Fallout. To remove any of that and you'd just have another FPOS on your hands.

Sure they should move forward, I'm not against updating the game and there's always room for improvement. But to change things so radically would be like turning a flight simulator into an arcade game.

[Mismatch]

long post

your hands are working, youre typing and posting
but mr brain has since long departed.

[Wolfman Walt]

Sorry, I don't really find action RPG's to be RPG's at all, just action games with unorthodox features. Can they be fun? Yes. Are they what I'm looking for from a Fallout game? No.

What's the last decent isometric RPG game you've played?

What's the last decent PC RPG you've played? Look at all the RPG's that came out this year. They all suck. As such, your question is flawed sir.

[Haris]

Bah who cares they are gonna make it 3d first person anyway. Its the company that was making first person game when the engine was not even 3d. So why would they not make it now? In best case they will have option to set camera so you see it as isometric.

Unless they stated something different somewhere and if that is the case i have missed it.

[Wolfman Walt]

Although there are good bets it will be, just saying it will be because it's beth is kinda retarded as they're not even past the preliminary planning phases.......after like 5 months. My guess is we'll know more as soon as the new Elder Scrolls is released. In shorter words - you know nothing Haris and neither does everyone else.

[Haris]

Thats true i guess.

[Blargh]

Would it be so bad?

Yes, it would.

Fortunately, I am under no compulsion to indulge PaladinHeart's woeful ruminations with actual attention and thoughtful response, rather than the most cursory of appraisals.

Thank Bob for that.

[PaladinHeart]

I'd love a great new isometric RPG but that doesn't change the fact that it will most likely be first person since they HAVE stated that it will use Oblivion's game engine.

I thought the SPECIAL system translated pretty well to real time in Fallout Tactics. Although I dislike how you can keep running no matter how many AP's you have. You should be forced to stop when you don't have any left.

It would be nice if running actually had an effect like it does in the Jagged Alliance games and thus fatigued you but actually made you go faster in combat.

Most of the skills would actually work the same. While you're browsing a computer with your science skill the same dice rolls would apply. While talking to people the same speach skill percentages would be taken into account.

When you fire a gun the first 100% of your guns skill could determine how large the possible target area is, with a low percentage more often than not firing randomly into the extreme ranges of your aiming circle or even have your character uncontrollably turn and fire off to the side due to their lack of skill. Factors beyond the first 100% of the skill would determine how far your projectile be accurate for and of course even if you do hit them their armor may deflect the blow where a higher skill would send the bullets unerringly to your target. Of course there's the damage resistance and threshold to consider then.

Okay let's take that encounter with the super mutant again. Let's say you want to fight it out instead. You dash up the stairs and initiate combat. Because you seen him first and of course have a high perception you get to act twice before he even knows what's going on.

Heh. Maybe we'll get lucky and combat will actually be turn based like this. Though it is very VERY likely it will not be.

Well, turn based or not, after you fire a couple bursts into the super mutant with your SMG he will of course have the opportunity to react (unless of course you managed to kill him with those two bursts).

In turn based combat you will probably and most likely have to stand there and take the blow. It would be interesting if your AC is high enough that he misses even though his skill is at least 100%. They could do this by having your character make a quick dodging motion like shifting your view up and to the side a bit to avoid the gunfire. In CTB however you may end up avoiding the retaliating fire of the mutant altogether if you jump off the ledge (though you would take damage from the fall of course).

I think first person could easily work for this RPG and I probably won't be disappointed whatever way it's made. I have more faith in Bethesda doing it right than anyone else. At least they'll get something done. Unlike the many abandoned fan made (sic) projects. xD

[Wolfman Walt]

I'd love a great new isometric RPG but that doesn't change the fact that it will most likely be first person since they HAVE stated that it will use Oblivion's game engine.

The first "Project IGI" was a FPS using the engine of a flight simulator. "Stubbs the Zombie" is a 3rd person action game using the Halo engine. Just because you're using a certain engine doesn't mean that it'll be one viewpoint or another so your argument thus far is just assumptions that prove nothing.

Stuff about real time

Being that this has been argued about 1 million times, I see no reason for us to talk about it again. Lets just say the consensus is it doesn't work and any way you wanna argue it is still gonna be bashed because in my opinion and the opinion of many people here, it's a stupid idea. FoT wasn't that good of a game with MANY flaws (Even outside of its storyline) so citing it as a source isn't the brightest of ideas.

Though it is very VERY likely it will not be.

Although I realize the trends of industry, unless you work for Bethesda you can't say what it'll be.

Well, turn based or not, after you fire a couple bursts into the super mutant with your SMG he will of course have the opportunity to react

No, thats how it works in turn based, in real time he'd be reacting right away. That's why it's "Real Time."

I have more faith in Bethesda doing it right than anyone else.

Not if they listen to what you say. Which I'm thanking God is most likely not the case.

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

I thought CTB was atrocious, neither one thing or the other.

Didn't someone do a TC of Half Life 2 into a third person fantasy game (oh what was the name of it?)

[PaladinHeart]

I thought CTB was atrocious, neither one thing or the other.

Didn't someone do a TC of Half Life 2 into a third person fantasy game (oh what was the name of it?)

It's called Eclipse and it's completely eye candy. The gameplay is atrocious. It's basically Half-Life but without any guns and you have to keep picking up rocks and hitting enemies with them to kill them. Like 100 times or so. :-P

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

It's called Eclipse and it's completely eye candy. The gameplay is atrocious.

That's not the point, if that's what bunch of modders can do with someone else's engine think what the professionals could do with their own creation.

[PaladinHeart]

As for Fallout 3. To me the ideal gameplay would have you adventuring and interacting in first person and when it comes down to fighting you switch to an isometric 3rd person view and have it turn based. Similar to Betrayal at Krondor.

Edit: Just swinging the camera to an overhead view. I don't want a Final Fanasy type encounter where the environment you fight in looks nothing like where you actually are in the game. Blegh.. And after combat I want the bodies to be right where they fell in combat and such.

Full control of party members during combat would be nice too. :joy: That's the best thing FOT has over FO1 and FO2.

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

Full control of party members during combat would be nice too. That's the best thing FOT has over FO1 and FO2.

I thought the opposite, RPGs are best when you have control of just you avatar and the others are characters not pack mules or cannon fodder. It makes it much more like playing with a group.

[Aonaran]

I shall join in on the herecy, the original post sounds pretty damn good to me. Whether or not turn based would work I'm still unsure, but the implementation of skills and attributes (into a 3D, first person perspective) sounds about dead on.

[PaladinHeart]

I thought the opposite, RPGs are best when you have control of just you avatar and the others are characters not pack mules or cannon fodder. It makes it much more like playing with a group.

I find that the more freedom an NPC has the more useless they are. Temple of Elemental Evil had NPC's that wanted their own share of the loot. This created huge problems due to encumbrance.

There should be a mix of two types of NPC's though. Hireable types that you can't see their inventory and they fight of their own accord and actual companions that you can give orders to and depending on their personality and how much they like the PC they may or may not react accordingly.

Say for example a Brotherhood Paladin joins you to help you get rid of some Super Mutants. You have full control of them in this purpose and they may even help you after the Super Mutants are dead but if you start killing townies or start turning evil they will turn more and more into an uncontrollable NPC and may even start attacking you.

Plus if you start to steal something it would be interesting if a good natured NPC come up behind you, put a gun to your head, and told you to put it back.

There should also be factors like a thieving NPC stealing from townies randomly and maybe even getting you in trouble. You should have to choose carefully who you travel with due to issues like this.

[Wolfman Walt]

I never really found it to be much of a "ROLE" playing game if you're playing more then one role at once. That more of strikes me as a "Squad Combat Game" which is great for games like JA2 or Silent Storm or even in the context that is FOT, not fallout. Sorry, nay on this too.

[PaladinHeart]

Well if you have to have party members they should at least be useful. Those in the Fallout 1 and 2 games were useless beyond the early game. Later in the game they become more of a problem because they step on traps and you have to tell them to stay behind in certain places and you have to reload when they suddenly die in a random encounter etc.. etc..

Late game you were better off alone than with a large group of helpers.

Plus there was the annoying way they had to level up with you (randomly) but I'm sure Bethesda won't go that route.

If they are like those in Morrowind then I will be traveling and fighting alone like in Morrowind. Allies in first person games are almost always total crap. Perhaps Radiant AI will make them better though. I hope!!!!