It's funny you should call turnbased outdated, because I seem to remember real-time combat twitch games as early as the first arcade machines.Aonaran wrote:This revolutionary system could then gain consciousness due to it's uberness and travel back in time ten years and implement itself in the original fallout game. Then, a decade later and once more in the now we could observe this advanced combat system as dated and move on.
Morrowind with Guns
"You're going to have a tough time doing that without your head, palooka."
- the Vault Dweller
- the Vault Dweller
As long as the system is based on character skill - not player skill - I don't care if the next Fallout isn't turnbased. Fallout is a game of thought, not button mashing.
As for modern turnbased games not being fun, millions of people like the Civilization series, as well as the strategic mode of the Total War games.
As for modern turnbased games not being fun, millions of people like the Civilization series, as well as the strategic mode of the Total War games.
"You're going to have a tough time doing that without your head, palooka."
- the Vault Dweller
- the Vault Dweller
Well, like I stated in the previous post I think it will be a good combination of both player and character skill. Plus I don't think it will boil down to button mashing because what i've read leads me to believe the player skill aspect will involve ample strategy.
I too prefer the more thought and process based action as it is far more compelling than button mashing. I can only hope that is what this combat system adds up to. But whatever it turns out to be it will be a vast improvement over the button mashing of Morrowind which I don't think impressed anyone and killed the game for alot of people.
I too prefer the more thought and process based action as it is far more compelling than button mashing. I can only hope that is what this combat system adds up to. But whatever it turns out to be it will be a vast improvement over the button mashing of Morrowind which I don't think impressed anyone and killed the game for alot of people.
Oh my god. Thank you for reminding me how much I hate real-time combat. So, instead of pressing the usual spacebar, you can press "," and "." keys to perform a ninja yakuza combat slash you learned from the sensei in the tavern. How innovative. I bet the 'skill' needed is to time the hit perfectly.Aonaran wrote:You can Dodge and Block and such but there is more to it than that. You can do varied attacks such as regular and power attacks as well as specialized attacks that you gain like perks as your mastery increases, much like in Fallout. Also this mastery determines your critical chance allowing you to disarm your opponent. Also if sucessfully landed the power attacks can stagger your opponent. So really the choice of attack will add quite a bit more strategy.
Yeah, that's fine. Fallout lacked some stealth elements, in my opinion. Stheath should be based on moving silently and staying out of sight instead of just magically being invisible to others, like in Vampire: Masquerade.Another addition is stealth based attacks, each weapon class having it's own individualized one. This adds more depth as well for the stealth favoring characters.
Please, cut the hype. The ability of NPCs using potions and switching weapons isn't that extraordinary in CRPGs.Also enemies make better use of their terrain as well as actually use potions and other modifiers to increase their ability to whoop your ass. If there is a more powerful weapon nearby they will go to it before charging you to increase their odds of taking you out.
As for turn-based being outdated, that is crap. Just take a look at the combat in Silent Storm, which wasn't released long ago. I considered the combat as an updated version of the combat in Fallout and XCOM(action point based) and in fact, quite enjoyable. The best thing about turn-based is that you can include more complex elements than in fast real-time combat, like the ones Retlaw83 mentioned. This gives the combat a better tactical depth. Lifting your hands in the air because you haven't done it before isn't a good reason for Bethsoft to ditch a cornerstone of the Fallout series.
Man, the game is in alpha, this isn't pre development hype, this is what has been developed and is a functioning part of the game as it stands now. you might not find it extraordintary, I expect that, but it is an improvement over Morrowind which is what i'm trying to display at the very least.
As for your comment on my views of turn based being crap, refer to my comment about Bethsofts abilities and what is best for them to make a competent game. Also I just don't see turn based working for Oblivion and honestly for the next Fallout either. Just because they haven't done it before isn't a good enough reason, this is correct, the fact that it wouldn't sell thus killing the series is.
Also the whole Yakuza rant was completely lost on me, no clue where you get these things man.
And as a post script no, the "skill" is NOT timing, it is your charcter skill in the weapon gained by using that weapon in combat, as opposed to putting points into it upon level up. Like I said, it is going to be a combination of player and character skill, not all out action game button mashing. If I thought that was in fact the case I wouldn't touch the game with a ten foot pole and certainly wouldn't have started this thread.
As for your comment on my views of turn based being crap, refer to my comment about Bethsofts abilities and what is best for them to make a competent game. Also I just don't see turn based working for Oblivion and honestly for the next Fallout either. Just because they haven't done it before isn't a good enough reason, this is correct, the fact that it wouldn't sell thus killing the series is.
Also the whole Yakuza rant was completely lost on me, no clue where you get these things man.
And as a post script no, the "skill" is NOT timing, it is your charcter skill in the weapon gained by using that weapon in combat, as opposed to putting points into it upon level up. Like I said, it is going to be a combination of player and character skill, not all out action game button mashing. If I thought that was in fact the case I wouldn't touch the game with a ten foot pole and certainly wouldn't have started this thread.
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PiP
- Last, Best Hope of Humanity
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Aonaran wrote:You can Dodge and Block and such but there is more to it than that. You can do varied attacks such as regular and power attacks as well as specialized attacks
Well now I'm worried about Fallout's future. Just fucking splendid, I'm gonna have to dodge, block and shoot (combo attacks ahoy! 
) and all that in real time. Fucking perfect. The ideal solution for F3 -IMHO- would be an engine similar to Silent Storm, SPECIAL, good story, good\evil & combat\noncombat paths etc;
I'd also accept a system similar to KOTOR,
but what you describe is getting close to.. Max Pain or something, and as such is rather hard to accept
Well I mean look at what Hellgate London is doing for the RPG in first person shooter. There is certainly potential for innovation, the result could be pretty great. What i'm interested in is what innovations could be made to the FPS to make it a good Fallout RPG (strategy, process).
Also the nature of sword and melee based combat is very different from that of ranged weapons, while they may implement what I discussed earlier in the HtH and melee aspects of combat I wouldn't fear it becomming max payne in the shooting. I think that is a rush to judgement.
Also the nature of sword and melee based combat is very different from that of ranged weapons, while they may implement what I discussed earlier in the HtH and melee aspects of combat I wouldn't fear it becomming max payne in the shooting. I think that is a rush to judgement.
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MrSmileyFaceDude
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It's amazing how much you guys know about Fallout 3 already, when we haven't said anything about it. 
Fallout is not Elder Scrolls, and Elder Scrolls is not Fallout. See, we know that, too. Did you know that Bethesda also makes drag racing games? And we've made bowling games, Terminator games, adventure games, multiplayer combat games, all kinds of things that are totally different from Elder Scrolls RPGs. I think we're a bit more flexible than you give us credit for.
Fallout is not Elder Scrolls, and Elder Scrolls is not Fallout. See, we know that, too. Did you know that Bethesda also makes drag racing games? And we've made bowling games, Terminator games, adventure games, multiplayer combat games, all kinds of things that are totally different from Elder Scrolls RPGs. I think we're a bit more flexible than you give us credit for.
I still remember your abysmal Delta-V, since that was the first boxed game I owned.
Or the monstrous Future Shock series, whose only positive aspect was the truck missions.
Or what about Terminator Rampage, which was the worst first-person shooter of the early 90's, and suffered from shitty game clock programming? (the animations were nice though).
Oh, and did Echelon developers eventually get those 150 grand you owed them by contract, but didn't pay for - quote - "half a year"?
Or the monstrous Future Shock series, whose only positive aspect was the truck missions.
Or what about Terminator Rampage, which was the worst first-person shooter of the early 90's, and suffered from shitty game clock programming? (the animations were nice though).
Oh, and did Echelon developers eventually get those 150 grand you owed them by contract, but didn't pay for - quote - "half a year"?
Yeah, keep the isometric view. Bethsoft's new engine should be capable of that, given how 'flexible' the guys are.Aonaran wrote:It will be interesting to see what Bethsoft does when it makes the transition from first person slasher rpg to first person shooter rpg. While I don't think it will be turn based I kind of wonder how it will retain that thoughtful nature Retlaw83 talked about.
Anyone have ideas on this?
My biggest fear with first person is that RPG style combat devolves into a normal run-of-the-mill shooter. Implementing elements from turn-based combat to first person mode can be hard, if not impossible, to do. Troika tried to do that in Vampire: Masquerade and they completely fucked up the combat. Isometric turn-based works well for both melee/unarmed and ranged weapons. Also, it gives a better overview for tactical decisions in addition with unlimited time.
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MrSmileyFaceDude
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You're so cynical. So negative. Have a puppy -- it'll cheer you upApTyp wrote:I still remember your abysmal Delta-V, since that was the first boxed game I owned.
Or the monstrous Future Shock series, whose only positive aspect was the truck missions.
Or what about Terminator Rampage, which was the worst first-person shooter of the early 90's, and suffered from shitty game clock programming? (the animations were nice though).
Oh, and did Echelon developers eventually get those 150 grand you owed them by contract, but didn't pay for - quote - "half a year"?
