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Doyle
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Joined: 21 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2002 12:04 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

According to Talius.
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Rosh
Desert Strider
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Joined: 18 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2002 12:43 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Doyle wrote:
According to Talius.


Exactly.
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Temaperacl
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Joined: 19 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2002 1:31 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

True, we do only have Talius' word on that. But do we have any reason to disbelieve Talius? Or do we have any information that would lead us to believe that we were the first/only sent out?
Personally, I don't recall anything that would lead us to that conclusion- all the details I recall would lead me to believe the opposite (That there were others before us)- Talius and the note from the overseer about equipment (in the manual) are the two main ones that come to mind.
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Rosh
Desert Strider
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Joined: 18 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2002 2:10 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Well, no mention of any others by the Overseer or any other person in Vault 13. If you were the only jackass running outside of the Vault from the vault at that time, someone would sure as hell know and tell you about the prior persons. True, it might have been a good thing that he doesn't mention that others failed, but it would make even more sense to "Keep an eye out for them, they might be able to help you if you run into them". Even finding out what happened to them or what dangers/causes of disappearance would be of a concern. That would ake sense, even if they are sending out an idiot to get a vital bit of machinery.

Or, if you want to go with another theory, there was someone shoved out the door after you so you'd be a litmus test to see how dangerous it was for the real hero. The dead guy was the vault's biggest inbred idiot and you were the runner-up. But that still doesn't invalidate that they might have considered you expendable. icon_mrhappy
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Constipated BladeRunner
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Joined: 16 May 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2002 9:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

O yeah, one thing is for certain! The overseer would never lie!
If anything, I would say that Talius is more trustworthy than the overseer.
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Saint_Proverbius
Righteous Subjugator
Righteous Subjugator


Joined: 21 May 2002
Posts: 1549

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 1:02 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Cabal wrote:
I'll take the blame for this one. Basically dumb dialogue can be done very well, as it was in Fallout, or it can be done as a running gag of 'Duh, uh, where quest?'. We could easily do the latter, but the former takes time and we recognized that we didn't have the time to do it well enough to include it. If there was more time in the schedule, we would probably go back and add it so that it was humorous, not repetitive, and it didn't prevent you from learning/understanding enough plot where you couldn't finish the game. To do low intelligence dialogue well, it really requires that you create a parallel but divergent script for the entire game, and it just wasn't feasible.

It's a design conceit that you are more intelligent than the average peasant and that you're not the village idiot. High intelligence allows you to gain additional options though.


Then really, you shouldn't allow characters to have below a certain amount of intelligence since you can't really have "dumb choices" due to the time limit.

That's really what dumb dialogue is all about. You have a criteria for intelligence that not only affects what they say, but also what they're capable of in terms of gameplay. By having dumb dialogue, you're really restricting the options they have to do stuff like pick up quests. That player may have to do things differently because he thinks differently due to that character being slow witted.

For example, you could have a quest involving a puzzle box that's a key to a door somewhere. A low int character would never be able to solve the box, so you need to find another way to slip that character in to what's behind the door.

Riddles would be another example of how dumb dialogue could alter the gameplay for low int characters. There's no way a simpleton would grasp some of those riddles that may or may not show up in the game. Allowing a low int character to solve a hard riddle and complete a quest because there's no dialogue on hand for that situation is just silly.

Quote:
<TimCain> Wow, I see low int dialog as an alternate dialog solution to many quests
<Saint_Proverbius> I agree, Tim. I made that argument.


Yay! I just made the argument again. icon_mrhappy

See, because it's a whole other dialogue tree, you can have the players do things differently based on what their attributes dictate for them. That's the way it should be since dialogue and quests are fairly integrated in a good RPG.
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Constipated BladeRunner
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Joined: 16 May 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 1:34 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Yes, I realize that Saint, but in my view (at least in the context of FO, less so in Arcanum) "dumb speak" just does not make that much sense.
Why would they send someone with obvious learning disablaties?
I do not know the context for the beggining of Lionheart, but I am assuming that in a inquisition enviorment that people with extreme learning disablities would be considerd possesed. Or something.
Arcanum though. Some of the best dialogue ever for a 8< Int. character.
"Defective shell".
Laughing REALLY FUCKING HARD
-Tough I do agree that there should be fewer quests for low intl. characters.
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Doyle
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Joined: 21 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 2:51 am Reply with quoteBack to top

That's completely irrelevant though, CBR. Just accept that whatever dumb stroke of luck is necessary for it to happen did indeed occur. It will be easier that way.
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Vikjunk
SDF!
SDF!


Joined: 02 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 2:56 am Reply with quoteBack to top

If you want a good reason to send out the low int char then how about this, he was the only one that was stupid enough to be willing to go out of the nice safe vault.

Happy? icon_mrhappy
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Saint_Proverbius
Righteous Subjugator
Righteous Subjugator


Joined: 21 May 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 1:33 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Constipated BladeRunner wrote:
Yes, I realize that Saint, but in my view (at least in the context of FO, less so in Arcanum) "dumb speak" just does not make that much sense.
Why would they send someone with obvious learning disablaties?
I do not know the context for the beggining of Lionheart, but I am assuming that in a inquisition enviorment that people with extreme learning disablities would be considerd possesed. Or something.
Arcanum though. Some of the best dialogue ever for a 8< Int. character.
"Defective shell".
Laughing REALLY FUCKING HARD
-Tough I do agree that there should be fewer quests for low intl. characters.


Whatever the reason for picking that person, SPECIAL dictates that the range of intelligence for all humans is 1-10 and even ranks them, 3 being poor, 2 being bad, and 1 being very bad. Someone with poor to very bad level intelligence should be, for all intents and purposes, retarded.
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Constipated BladeRunner
Wanderer
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 4:13 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Yes.
But you have to put it in context with the story- you really think that the Vault would even give little Ms. Suzie with down syndrome a chance to search for the water chip?
Now, perhaps with the context of Lionheart (and in the context of Arcanum, with the "accidental" blimp crash and all) you could have a throughly retarted character, but unlikely due to the Inqusition.
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Rosh
Desert Strider
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Joined: 18 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 4:28 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Constipated BladeRunner wrote:
Yes.
But you have to put it in context with the story- you really think that the Vault would even give little Ms. Suzie with down syndrome a chance to search for the water chip?


It's been explained before. Do you need it explained again, this time with help from Mr. Clue-by-Four?
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Constipated BladeRunner
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 6:22 am Reply with quoteBack to top

No.
I just dont think that they would include Ms. Suzie in their straw draw.
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TimCain
I Make Games!
I Make Games!


Joined: 19 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 6:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I always thought of Fallout's story of drawing straws was something the Overseer thought of. "Look, someone has to go outside, and they may die out there, so let's draw straws". Someone, probably not the Overseer since he wouldn't have gone outside no matter what, demanded that EVERYONE draw a straw in order to be truly fair. But to be honest, the vault dwellers were simpy terrified of going outside, and terrified people do not always make the wisest decisions.

Anyway, when big dumb Larry drew the straw, maybe the Overseer saw a way to rid their limited gene pool of some really bad alleles.
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Constipated BladeRunner
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 7:15 am Reply with quoteBack to top

TimCain wrote:

Anyway, when big dumb Larry drew the straw, maybe the Overseer saw a way to rid their limited gene pool of some really bad alleles.

Well, Tim Cain makes everything official, so I wont argue there.
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Doyle
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Joined: 21 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 11:09 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Rosh wrote:
Constipated BladeRunner wrote:
Yes.
But you have to put it in context with the story- you really think that the Vault would even give little Ms. Suzie with down syndrome a chance to search for the water chip?


It's been explained before. Do you need it explained again, this time with help from Mr. Clue-by-Four?


LOL! Do you know CBR in person or something, Rosh? I swear, you're acting like his older brother or something.
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VasikkA
No more Tuna
No more Tuna


Joined: 15 Jun 2002
Posts: 8711

PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 8:43 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Constipated BladeRunner wrote:
Well, Tim Cain makes everything official, so I wont argue there.
A wise move, comrade. :wink:
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Rosh
Desert Strider
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Joined: 18 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 5:14 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Doyle wrote:

LOL! Do you know CBR in person or something, Rosh? I swear, you're acting like his older brother or something.


If you ever imply familial connection to that again, I will be forced to messily eviscerate you.
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Spazmo
Haha you're still not there yet
Haha you're still not there yet


Joined: 12 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2002 3:11 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Rosh wrote:
If you ever imply familial connection to that again, I will be forced to messily eviscerate you.


rofl

You're such a bitch!
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